Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

My friend Jon Mack at Reptile By Mack produced 1 Argentine Motley out of 47 babies a few years ago. It just POPPED up. The Dad was a Het t positive, and the Mom was a Poss het. Well, out of 47 normals, only 1 Motley popped up.

He bred it last year to the Mother but got a small litter and there were NO Motleys.

THIS YEAR, he bred it to an T positive Albino Argentine. The Result was INCREDIBLE. The Motley IS genetic. Not only was the Motley genetic but it was ALSO a Het for T positive. So, there are NOW Motleys in the Argentine, AND T positive Motleys. UNREAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Major Congratulations to John Mack. He asked me to post this here. WAY TO GO JOHN........

If you want more information on the "Black" or Argentine Motley, contact John Mack at mackiii@ameritech.net

I thought you would all want to know this since John doesn't visit the forums. I was very excited to see this. That makes 3 different Motleys that are genetic in the Boas. Central American, Columbian, and Argentine.

As for the Genetics, he is leaning that is Co-dom, but there is a Slight possiblity of it being Recessive since the T positives he bred it to were related to the Motley. I am thikning it is Co-dom. EITHER WAY, WHAT A GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Here is the T positive Motley. What a KILLER SNAKE. can't wait to see it when it is older. The adult Argentine T positive is one of my FAVORITE looking Boas. The Colors are AWESOME.

of those two Argentine morphs were unreal to begin with....but to see them combined............... breathlessssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats to the Macks!
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>>Here is the T positive Motley. What a KILLER SNAKE. can't wait to see it when it is older. The adult Argentine T positive is one of my FAVORITE looking Boas. The Colors are AWESOME.
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Good grief the boa world is exploding with exceptional combinations all around this year, it is amazing.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com
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I always thought the T pos argentines were awesome, especially as adults. I remember seeing the motley argentine in Daytona, but haven't heard or seen much of it since then. Now, more than ever, I'd have to agree this is definitely the year of the boa. Albino/sunglow motleys, purple patternless, bloody salmons, and there's so many more litters to be born this year. Pass along my congrats to John, hopefully we'll all get to take a first hand look at these awesome babies in Daytona. Take care.

Paul

omg.. those are awesome.. congrats
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http://accforum.proboards23.com/

I just found something else I want.............AAACCKKKKK!!!!
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Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents

"Don't take life so serious.....it isn't permanent."

...get better as it gets bigger!

Macks for adding another first to this already awesome year of the boas!!!

>>Here is the T positive Motley. What a KILLER SNAKE. can't wait to see it when it is older. The adult Argentine T positive is one of my FAVORITE looking Boas. The Colors are AWESOME.
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

I dropped by John's house one time after visiting Craig McSherry.My wife and I were treated to an amazing display of animals.That was a long time ago,so I can't imagine what they have now.I have also never seen so many leapord geckoes in my life.They were hatching left and right as we were watching.Both John and Amy were extrememly cordial.Nice people.

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What a great year for boas. I'm glad Occidentalis is part of the excitment. Argies are one of my favorites, and the T-Pos Black Motley is IMO one of the nicest looking boas on the PLANET! Congrats to John Mack! I'm wondering...what kind of projects are you working on that involve Argies?

BTW - Speaking of argies...and reguarding what you told me about their indiginous status, I found some more info that backed up what you said...about the permits that were grated by Argentina to Japan and what-not...(not that I didn't believe you )...that really puts species integration into perspective. Thanks for sharing.

Chris

I didn't want to mention this because I knew I would have SOMEONE disagree, and I just didn't want to deal with it, because most of my sources wanted to be kept anonomous, so I just tell it to the few people who REALLY care. To answer the FIRST question: I do work with a Small group of Argentines, and Like you, I REALLY love them. I have some T positives and hets. I also have some MAX pink Argentines. Two years ago in Daytona I saw some on a table that were very expensive. Although my plans that year Did NOT include Argentine boas, I couldn't pass them up. (A BAD habbit of Mine) LOL!!!! Yes, I do have some Integrades too. I just LOVED the Argentine Albinos. I was actually the first to produce those from a pair of Hets I got from Pete. However, mine were just average. Pete threw some SCREAMERS, and I have since picked up quite a few of what look just like Corals to me from Pete Kahl. I even love the Look of the Columbian Argentine Cross. I have about 10 of those that just have INCREDIBLE colors. I also have some Salmontines. I picked up some from Mike Weitzman a few years back, and then last year picked up 2 more from the 75 percent Argentine crosses. The Color on those are INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To answer your questions about the second thing we were talking about is why I have the integrades and breath a little easier. Them being put on "protective Species" status is COMPLETLEY political. Just like I told you there are many permits going out to other countries in the HUNDREDS. They are Quite common there in Argentina. My brother lived there 2 years from 90 to 1992. He sent me picture after picture of all the Argentine Boas he saw. He was in 1 town where he said he saw at LEAST 50 in one day. The townspeople considered them a complete Nuisance because there were soo many. He witnessed a big breeding ball similar to the Anaconda way of breeding and sent me pics of that. He said there must have been 20 to 30 just in that group. IT was FACINATING to me as a herper back then, but my brother just wasn't into them like I was or he would have TRIED to bring them back to me. LOL!!!!!!!!! I have done a little homework on that side, and I just choose to keep it to myself. I can say openly without any doubt in my mind that ARGENTINE boas are FAR from becoming Exctinct in the Wild. They are Thriving there. The Only threat has been Deforestation, and the Argentine Econmony has been in the Dumps. I just don't like them being Political about it. You would be suprised how many other people outside the US if they KNOW what they are doing can IMPORT them by the Hundreds. Thanks for the post Chris. I'm glad you did your Research instead of just taking my WORD for it. That is what everyone should do when making an Educated decision. Take Care, Jeremy

Yes, just like Linda said. This T positive was a BITTER SWEET one for me to see. I was EXTREEMLY happy, but then EXTREEMLY sad because I knew I would be MUCH more IN DEBT I would be because they are on my A list!!!!!!!! LOL

More a political game than actual number of animals. And deforestation being one of the largest concerns for the species. Take care

Paul

Way to go, John! Beautiful snakes!

But IMHO, any prediction of the mode of inheritance is just a guess at this point. To decide whether the motley mutant gene is recessive to normal or dominant to normal, you need to do some crosses: adult motley to some unrelated Argentines, motley x motley (either father x daughter or brother x sister), and nonmotley brother x nonmotley sister from this motley x T positive albino mating.

IMHO, outbreeding to some unrelated Argentines is a good idea at this point. If motley turns out to be recessive to normal, you'd get increased vigor in the line. If motley turns out to be dominant or codominant to normal, you'd get both increased vigor in the line and more motleys.

Expected results if the motley mutant gene is recessive to the normal allele:
motley x unrelated normal Argentine --> all normal (heterozygous motley)
motley x motley --> all motley
nonmotley brother x nonmotley sister from motley x T pos albino mating --> 3/4 normal, 1/4 motley

Expected results if the motley mutant gene is dominant (either dominant or codominant) to the normal allele:
motley x unrelated normal Argentine --> 1/2 normal, 1/2 motley motley x motley --> 3/4 some sort of motley, 1/4 normal
nonmotley brother x nonmotley sister from motley x T pos albino mating --> all normal.

Once you get around 50 babies from each of the three types of matings above, you will not have to guess about the inheritance pattern.

Paul Hollander

Very Good Point Paul,

I was just giving my opinion after what happened last year when he bred the Motley back to the Mom and had a good number of babies but No Motleys. Either way, if they were recessive and the Female T positive was a Het, you would get 1/2 Motleys. SAME thing if it was Co domaint. You also Get 1/2 Motleys, so you are right. It is a GUESS at this point. I just THINK that It would be VERY WEIRD if it was recessive considering what happened, and I HOPE it to be Dominant for the Chances of Producing a SUPER that is Different from the Motley.

Not to be jumping the Gun, I was just giving my opinion as to what I THOUGHT. I think it is co-dom, but that is JUST MY Guess and Opinion. Once more breedings are done, I would think you will know.

I also think you don't have to go out 3 breedings to know. You could go find a TOTALLY unrelated Argentine Female Boa. Also completley UNRELATED to the T postiive gene. Breed her next year to that Motley, and IF 1/2 come out Motley I would bet 1000 dollars it would be Dominant. 2 of these breedings would be FOR SURE. Thanks for the imput Paul. You are RIGHT.

Jeremy

And I think it would be terrific if motley turns out to be some sort of a dominant mutant gene. I've just shot off my mouth and hit my foot often enough to be cautious in my predictions.

Paul Hollander

WOW........very nice indeed.

To see a new boa and a new motley at that I am excited for you and see the bank account taking another dip now I need a 3rd job, lol.

Keep up the great work and Mark as well.

Cya...

Tony

Congrats!!!
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Ron Michelotti

Class Reptilia
www.classreptilia.com

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin