Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey All,
My uro is doing fine, if you dont remember its a baby saharan, and actually had his best growth this last month from 18grams to 24.
But I went to the vet for my leos and decided to take a stool sample of my uro just to check, the vet wasnt able to talk to me, hes busy I have to call him later, but the secretary told me the results showed 2+ pinworms, I was wondering if anyone had experience with this???
The vet does treat exotics but Im not sure how much he knows,
Im gonna speak to him either tonight or tommorow and see what he says but I wanted to know if any of you had experience with this and what you had to do, so I know if what hes telling me makes sense and also because I remember reading that uros have a small amount of a certain worm in them I think, and was wondering if these are the ones??
Id appreciate any input!

Thanks Allot
Jack

-----
0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

I know pinworms are bad. They can be treated with fenbendazole...which you will find in paste form used for horses...you can also use ivermectin which is less safe.

I think nematodes or roundworms are somewhat okay because they aid in digestion but so far nobody has replied to my post so I wouldn't use that as viable info...apparently though Doug Dix of Deer Fern Farms actually "worms" his uros to help them for growth and whatnot.
-----
Chris Vanderwees

E-mail Me
1.2.0 Bearded Dragons
1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.3.0 Veiled Chameleons
3.5.0 Corn Snakes
1.3.0 Tokay Geckos
2.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.3.0 South Florida Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.5.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Green Iguanas
3.3.0 Mali Uromastyx

By worms do you mean he does something to give them more worms???

Jack
-----
0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

I'm not 100% sure but that's the term they use on their website...they are apparently able to "worm" their uros...so I would assume the uro would ingest a couple worms to help aid in digestion.

But that is only for NEMATODES...pinworms are bad and should be ridden from the intestinal tract.
-----
Chris Vanderwees

E-mail Me
1.2.0 Bearded Dragons
1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.3.0 Veiled Chameleons
3.5.0 Corn Snakes
1.3.0 Tokay Geckos
2.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.3.0 South Florida Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.5.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Green Iguanas
3.3.0 Mali Uromastyx

When someone says they "worm" their reptiles, this usually means that they treat them for worms with a safe level of a safe parasite treatment, such as panacur. I'm pretty sure this is what doug dix meant, but you should check with him. Getting rid of any parasites in a uromastyx will aid in growth and health overall. Pinworms generally should be taken care of with a good parasite treatment. Often panacur is used, and some times ivermectin, though a small overdose of ivermectin can permanently disable a lizard, sometimes killing it (depening on the amount overdosed). It's also known that use of ivermectin on turtles and tortoises almost always results in death of the reptile. I try to stay away from the ivermectin if I can (it can be more affective if it takes too long to rid the reptile(s) of parasites with a safer treatment)...also know that ivermectin is typically labelled "Ivomec" (is this a brand or something?). That being said, my research has shown that the type of parasite treatment your reptile vet prescribes or administers at the first sighting of parasites is a good indication of whether or not your vet is very experienced in reptiles. A good reptile vet will almost always suggest panacur for at least the first (if not all) tries at getting rid of parasites. I'm not sure the truth of this, but I have heard that ivermectin is so dangerous because it basically poisons the reptile's blood (which in turn kills the parasites). This would explain why a lizard treated with ivermectin will typically appear very sick for a few days after treatment.

Good luck with the parasites.

Thanks for the input,
I wasnt able to speak to the vet yet, Im gonna call tommorow.
Ill definitely post what he says tommorow.
Where did you get this info from, did you have a uro with pinworms?? What happened??
Do you know approximatelly what the does should be for my uro, its 24 grams and the results said 2 for pinworms.

Thanks
Jack
-----
0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

np
-----
0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

np
-----
0.1 Hypo-Tang Leopard Gecko
0.1 Tremper Albino Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Crested Geckos
0.0.1 CB Baby Saharan Uromastyx

I have had pinworms with my bearded dragon, and now he has them again. It makes sense, since pinworms are commonly transferred through crickets, but it's annoying when you have to do panacur for over a year and still not have a reptile free of parasites.

I don't know doses. With panacur it's pretty safe to trust the vet, because it can be hard to accidently overdose that stuff, and usually they will prescribe less than you need. Maybe you might want to research doses of panacur or something.

I got us all off topic...so the original poster should keep in mind that pinworms are undesired and do not aid in digestion...so yes like ryan said use fenbendazole or ivermectin with a properly administered dosage from a vet.

And I e-mailed Doug Dix on the subject...and believe it or not but they keep their uros with small amounts of nematodes in their digestive tracts. They worm them (worm meaning give them nematodes). He also recommends that baby uros consume adult dried feces in order to have the hatchlings consume the nematode eggs and intern cause them to have small counts of nematodes in their digestive tracts as well.

Somehow I don't agree with "worming" your reptiles...but he explans it on his site...that uros lack rumens and they don't chew their food so a small population of nematodes helps the uro break down food faster and also grow much quicker because the uro is able to consume more food when it is able to break the food down easier.

I still have never seen any "good" publications on this subject...I've never seen an example of what a "safe" population of nematodes is. I also can't say I've seen any studies or reliable information on the subject except for on Doug Dix's website.

So really I can't say how true or not true this theory is. Basically if you believe Doug Dix...you can go ahead and follow his steps and if you don't...then go out and get some fenbendazole. I'm no expert on the subject, I'm just looking to find an answer to the question:

Nematodes-good or bad?

Where's Robyn when you need him? haha
-----
Chris Vanderwees

E-mail Me
1.2.0 Bearded Dragons
1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.3.0 Veiled Chameleons
3.5.0 Corn Snakes
1.3.0 Tokay Geckos
2.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.3.0 South Florida Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.5.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Green Iguanas
3.3.0 Mali Uromastyx

sorry...when I hear "wormed", I automatically think of "dewormed", because some people seem to use those two words interchangable. But now that you bring it up, that really does make some sense. I wouldn't go out and try to do it, but Doug Dix is in a situation where it is easy for him to keep it going. I'd say it's still very important to get the bad parasites out though, because those can severly hinder a reptile's ability to thrive.

Also, if nematodes do aid in digestion, they're technically not parasites. Parasites are only organisms which survive using other organisms, and provide no benefit...or sometimes harm. I forget what this is called though. It's like how termites have something in their stomaches (sorry, I haven't looked at this in a while) that partially digests the wood for them or something, allowing the termite to finish the job. It's sort of vague to me right now, but it's all sort of interesting.

thanks for catching that.

Nematodes are parasites.

Anything that lives and feeds off a host can be considered a parasite. (although there are parasites that also feed off of but do not live on the host)

Nematode is a very broad term for literally thousands of different types of organisms and not all are thought to be helpful in digestion.

One parasite that is believed to be of benefit in reptiles is the pinworm (Oxyurid).
While some believe that pinworms are of no benefit and only harm (parasitism) others believe that they live as commensals (getting along- usually one benefits the other is not harmed) and others believe that the relationship is actually mutualistic (both benefit).

Keep in mind that a large number of people (myself included) believe that this commensal and mutualistic relationship is valid in a uromastyx natural environment and that this relationship can change and turn into an opportunistic pathogen when exposed to the stress of captivity and improper or inadequate conditions.

Very good points. From what I've learned in bio, a parasite that has a positive impact on the host is really not a true parasite, though it can be argued every which way. Same goes for the pinworm thing. True, they can survive in the wild with pinworms as long as they are not stressed out (and living in the wild can be a very stressful situation if you sit back and think about what they deal with everyday). My stance is that parasites usually have an affect on reptiles in captivity, so it is much safer to rid them of it.

When Doug Dix or a vet refers to "worming" an animal (reptile or otherwise) they are talking about giving the animal a treatment to either get rid of existing worms, or treating as a preventive measure.

hope that clears it up. As far pinworms, they should be taken care of and only nemotodes are the "healthy" things that uro use for digestion.

Renee

"Worming" ALWAYS means to treat animals for worms by giving them a medication that will kill the worms...

Where the confusion may be coming in is that many breeders will make sure a newly hatched baby uro eats some of the droppings from an adult to inoculate it with adult intestinal flora and fauna..(inclunding some species of nematodes)...In the wild, new babies will eat adult droppings as their first meal...On the other hand I've heard some breeders don't think this is necessary, and don't do it, apparently with no bad effects...So who knows? If I'm ever lucky enough to get babies, I will probably offer adult droppings just to be on the safe side (droppings should obviously be from a healthy, well nourished adult)...

SR

Thanks for clearing up the worming issue...funny you'd think they'd just say "deworm" because you are giving them dewormers not wormers...whatever i guess it's easily mixupable.
-----
Chris Vanderwees

E-mail Me
1.2.0 Bearded Dragons
1.1.0 Crested Geckos
1.3.0 Veiled Chameleons
3.5.0 Corn Snakes
1.3.0 Tokay Geckos
2.2.0 California Kingsnakes
1.3.0 South Florida Kingsnakes
1.1.0 Albino Sonoran Gopher Snakes
1.5.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 Green Iguanas
3.3.0 Mali Uromastyx