Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know we have a majority of Burmese loving people here but how many of you extend your love and compassion to the prey you feed? How many raise your own prey: rodents, rabbits, etc. to ensure a healthy diet for both prey and predator and to endure hygenic conditions? I'm wondering if others have actually visited rodent factories to see the conditions? So often I find myself in a conversation with someone who swears he or she loves animals but could really care less for the conditions prey are subjected to. The cheaper is better mentality forces producers to cut corners in feed and conditions: cramming more into less space, changing bedding and cleaning less often, feeding the cheapest food but saying its Mazuri or feeding every other day, feeding dead rodents, ... I know you have all seen pathetic frozen rats in a baggy. Anyone who has been around for a little while has seen them. My questions are really out of curiousity more than anything else. I raise my own feeders humanely and know the cost and time involved. I sell surplus and have found special customers that purchase quality feeders. Sometimes I break even on sales and sometimes I've taken a loss. Everytime I try to operate at a small profit I run into the same problem: cheap. Are we devoid of compassion? These are the same principles that produce our foods, that feed chicken litter to our beef cattle, have introduced Mad Cow, that feed arsenic to chickens, etc. All in the name of cheap. How much do you love animals?
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles (Off-line Temporarily)
GiantFeeders

well i do love animals even the rats I feed my balls.....my friend had a pet rat .it was actually quite intelligent & friendly...I buy frozen for two reasons it is cheaper but also I hate killing them....(I preferred feeding live)...I can only take out soo many rats before it starts bothering me..lol I hope my boa will stay happy with rats if I have to start feeding rabbits I could never kill one ever. lol As most I grew up condition that rats are a evil disease carrying pest guess that desensitized me a lil & the fact that for my snake to live they have to go got me through it. But I don't think i'd have what it takes to kill a rabbit they're tooo damn cute.....i have been considering a burm forever but will still prob wait till I own my own place so I dont have to worry about a landlord or anything but when I do it will be all frozen rabbits..lol

i love animals, but for somereason, i hate rats!!!!!!! nasty little things!!!!!! i just dont like rodents i guess. but i like almost every other animal on gods green earth!!!!!!!!!
but i could care less about thouse rats!!

I've got pet rats and a pet dog. The only difference between the two is size as far as I'm concerned. They're equally affectionate and attached to me. Rat phobias are a lot like snake phobias, once you get to know the animal it kind of dissapates but the first step is the hardest.
(hamsters, on the other hand, are actualy vile nasty creatures)

Anyway, I've never visited my rat supplier's facility (although I could and it's not a bad idea), the animals are always plump, clean, and basically flawless. Which to me indicates that they're kept humanely, but I guess it is kind of blind trust. Most 'casual' snake owners really don't give a crap about the rodents, like they're some sort of inferior animal because they're lower on the food chain than snakes. So it IS very good to consider. All animals are deserving of humane treatment and death.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

bare with me< my keyboard has gone to hell. The point of this message was not to see if you guys mind killing animals becuase they are cute. The point was to see if you care about your animals enough to seek better feeders, or find out where they come from. Rather than running to the closest pet store and finding the cheapest rats you can find, seek a better route, find someone who cares for the health of your animals as much as you do, not just your money. I lucked out, the nearest pet store has the greatest people who I've known for sometime, who care just as much as I do. A path commonly taken, and by far the safest way, is feeding F/T. This ensures better health of your animals. By feeding frozen, many parasites and bacteria carried by live prey is killed off. Ofcourse the safest way is breeding your own feeders. This way you know you are feeding your animals the best, every professional breeder I know, does this. Sorry for the long post, but I agree with tango on this matter, but in the end some of us have no other choice than the pet stores. BTW my name is Matt haha thought id add that in..

well to answer the care question I tried the breeding of feeders myself & I cared for them as good as my snakes...they are going to eat the animal i'm caring for so I always wanted them to get the best meal I could give them...as far as caring where they come from doesn't mean as much to me if we're talking about live because even if they weren't cared for the greatest I would improve their care & their childrens care etc....f/t i checked alot of places & i went with the guy near me in NY delivery by van...now i just decided to give this guy a shot & I'm happy . if rodent pro was closer to me I would go with them because I like the way thier site represents them. Them seem very anal & methodical about their stuff which in food is a good thing. so f/t/ quality is important but i don't have to have the finest 24k rats as long as they look fine & i feel comfortable with the breeder. If i didn't have other expenses then yes I would spoil them with the finest rats I could waste cash on..lol
names joe

What Tango is trying to imply and Matt was trying to support was that if we all truely care for animals as most of us do then it is our responsibility to ensure that even our feeders come from a place that provides proper conditions for them to live in and that euthanizes them in a humane manner. For example, I used to use rodent pro for all my frozen feeders. I still say that they are a good company and I am not trying to knock them in any way but I have seen many things that make me wonder how well they truely take care of the animals they sell as feeders. My biggest concern was the fact that many times the rabbits had blood on their snouts and occassionally even had broken limbs. Now if they are euthanizing these animals humanly (co2 gas) then how are these wounds happening. Just because they are destined to be feeders doesn't mean that they should not be allowed to live out what little life that they have in a pleasant atmosphere and be put down humanely. I now raise my own rabbits and rats so this is no longer a concern for me. Todd

Yeap, that's it. So often we forsake the humane life of one animal for the sake of something else. We forsake the humane care of factory farmed chickens for a drive thru KFC or Popeye's etc. Many times people don't want to hear about how the animal was raised because what matters is how much they can afford. As owners of multiple reptiles, the cheaper the prey, the more animals we can keep. We look for sales and bargains and actually encourage inhumane care as a competitive chip. I started raising my own feeders because it matters a lot to me but I am constantly speaking with people who have no clue or don't want to know. So I am very curious to know how many people really care from the bottom to the top of the food chain? BTW, Todd, not to support Rodent Pro because I've never visited their facility, but prey killed with CO2 will often have a nasal capillary burst. The bleeding starts either in the thawing process or when vacuum-packing. The broken legs, here have happened when a small rabbit kit jumps out of the nest box and catches his foot in the bottom wire. I put them down for my smaller snakes right away. Other broken limbs, I can't explain.
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Marcia Pimentel
Tango River Reptiles (Off-line Temporarily)
GiantFeeders

While I raise most of the animals I feed to my snakes, I do occassionally need more than I have on hand. I purchase the animals I need from Big Cheese Rodentry, and yes, I have visited BOTH of their facilities. The main farm was large and well organized and I actually witnessed the type of food being fed and saw the names on the bags of food and bedding. I recently visited their new facility and although still under construction, the animals housed there were equally cared for.

I cannot raise my own rabbits out here in the heat of West Texas, so I purchase twice a year from Holding Gold Rabbitry south of Dallas and stuff my deep freezer full. The rabbitry was started to raise meat rabbits for dogs (rabbit is an excellent food for all meat eaters!) and they also have some show rabbits. It is impeccably managed and I'm 100% confident in the quality and the care given the animals there.

I guess I am probably an exception here, but I thought I'd share the experience with these companies while the issue was being addressed.

K. Royer

>>I know we have a majority of Burmese loving people here but how many of you extend your love and compassion to the prey you feed? How many raise your own prey: rodents, rabbits, etc. to ensure a healthy diet for both prey and predator and to endure hygenic conditions? I'm wondering if others have actually visited rodent factories to see the conditions? So often I find myself in a conversation with someone who swears he or she loves animals but could really care less for the conditions prey are subjected to. The cheaper is better mentality forces producers to cut corners in feed and conditions: cramming more into less space, changing bedding and cleaning less often, feeding the cheapest food but saying its Mazuri or feeding every other day, feeding dead rodents, ... I know you have all seen pathetic frozen rats in a baggy. Anyone who has been around for a little while has seen them. My questions are really out of curiousity more than anything else. I raise my own feeders humanely and know the cost and time involved. I sell surplus and have found special customers that purchase quality feeders. Sometimes I break even on sales and sometimes I've taken a loss. Everytime I try to operate at a small profit I run into the same problem: cheap. Are we devoid of compassion? These are the same principles that produce our foods, that feed chicken litter to our beef cattle, have introduced Mad Cow, that feed arsenic to chickens, etc. All in the name of cheap. How much do you love animals?
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>>Marcia Pimentel
>>Tango River Reptiles (Off-line Temporarily)
>>GiantFeeders