Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone! I am seriously thinking of getting a pair of Russians. I am looking for any tips or advice anyone can give me. I have found a vet who will care for tortoises in our area. We live on barrier islands off the NC coast near the Virginia border.
The area where we would probably put the enclosure is composed of forest litter, peat, and sand. I am thinking of building a 6'x4' pen. How often do you change the substrate? How far down do you dig it up? I have a lab who is outside a lot of the time so the cage needs to be pretty sturdy. My husband is a carpenter so building the pen is no problem.
Do you take them inside every night? Is a 25 gallon tank big enough?I have looked through the care sheets online but I think that talking to people with experience is the best way. I have a very responsible 8 year old who will be HELPING me with the necessary upkeep. Sorry for the rambling-I am just trying to make sure that I get everything in here that I think I might need to know ahead of time.

Thanks,

1 husband
2 kids
1 black lab
2 guinea pigs

The area where we would probably put the enclosure is composed of forest litter, peat, and sand. I am thinking of building a 6'x4' pen. How often do you change the substrate? How far down do you dig it up?

Russian torts are very good diggers, and if the soil is loose and sandy, they could dig right out. You may want to consider putting the edge of the pen down a good 12", or extending some kind of other barrier down to discourage digging out. I think if you place a hide box in the middle of the enclosure, the torts will go there instead of trying to dig their own tunnels.

I never change the substrate in my outdoor pen. But I do clean out the feces and trim the grass by hand. I let natural biological activity keep the area clean.

I have a lab who is outside a lot of the time so the cage needs to be pretty sturdy.

It will be very important to keep the dog and torts separated. A ball with legs is just too tempting for any dog.

Do you take them inside every night? Is a 25 gallon tank big enough?

I don't bring mine in unless it's either dry and below 40F or wet and below 50F. They are very durable animals, and as long as they have a dry shelter to go to, they can tolerate fairly extreme temps. Mine have been out in temps up to 105+ and showed no signs of stress.

If you do bring them in, a 25g tank would be OK for overnight, but not much longer. They'll be used to the big pen and feel constrained by such a small space. Expect it to be coated with feces if they are kept in it very long. Stress = loose bowels.

The key is dry and warm. If you can provide that you can't kill them. Of course you have to start with good animals to begin with.
All but 2 of the Russians I've gotten for nothing as adoptions. All have the same story... I found this wandering down the street and I'm not really into tortoises...
The point is that these guys can climb like monkeys and dig like gophers.
If you are thinking of setting them up outdoors on a barrier island type habitat I'd suggest that you line the bottom about 3 to 4 feet down with brick or hardware cloth (considering the soft sand they can dig that deep in no time).
The humidity is the tough part to get around. I'm in San Diego and I water the yard a great deal. They could not tolerate this with poor draining soil so I keep mine indoors and they are very tough.
The animals I bring in at night I place in Rubbermaid sweater boxes. I have my daughter collect them after sundown when they are already asleep. I put them out first thing in the AM (not the russians though) I haven't found a tortoise that could not tolerate this well.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Thanks to everyone who has replied! What do you keep your Russians in inside? That would eliminate the dog problem as well as keep the 2 year old from messing with them. (She is a Houdini herself sometimes!) I have been looking at Vision Cages as a possibility, but they are expensive! It is EXTREMELY HUMID here. It is the beach after all! We also have a couple of wild box turtles that pass through our yard quite often. I do not want any parasites contaminating my turtles if I can help it.

I keep my guys in a 2 x 4 foot Tortoise table but I really think they need something larger than this. Vision also makes these 'turtle tubs' that I believe are $200 or less. They are fantastic if you only have one setup. You can put in about a foot of substate and because they are plastic you don't have to worry about rot.
Check em out. I think they are great. When you consider the time and money you spend making a turtle table, I think this is a better value and it is maintenance free.
The wood turtle tables are going to have to be refinished eventually.
http://www.kingsnake.com/visionherp/tubs.htm
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Hello,
I've found that plastic cattle watering troughs do nicely.
These can be found at "FEED & SUPPLY" stores. Various sizes,
priced accordingly. Hope this helps, GOOD LUCK!!

there has been quite a few Russians debates before this one, keep going down and you will see ... happy digging!

I am thinking of building a 6'x4' pen. How often do you change the substrate?

In an outdoor pen you shoudn't need to change the substrate. In 33 years of keeping I have never changed an outdoor substrate. Clean it up...yes...change it..no.

How far down do you dig it up?

Think of a russian as a live 6 inch backhoe. In our outdoor pens I went down 12 inches and put chicken wire across the width of the pen. They can and have dug down that far and the chicken wire stops them cold.

I have a lab who is outside a lot of the time so the cage needs to be pretty sturdy.

Make sure the pen has secure tops and dogs aren't an issue. We have two lab mixes - dogs who love to chew on anything particularly wood - and ours haven't done any damage to either pen or tort. If you want a visual go to Joe Heinden's Russian Tortoise site (www.russiantortoise.org) and click on the Outdoor Pen Idea link. The one shown is one of my three outdoor pens -- it's 6 x 16, so not too far from what you are looking to build. The last photo shows the type of tops I've built to provide security. Something along these lines will keep dogs and other predators out and torts in.

Do you take them inside every night? Is a 25 gallon tank big enough?

Once they go out in mid-May (daytime temps 65 - nightime 45 ) they stay out until they have dug in to hibernate, usually late October. Then I bring them in, clean them off, check them over and pop them it the refridge for 3 months. Our indoor set-up is not too differnet than Ed's. The only difference is each of ours is 3 x 6 for each pair of torts as opposed to 2 x 4. I have set-up our indooor pens to look very closely to what they have outdoors and have found the stress level goes waaayyyyy down for them from making this change.

Don't worry about humidity. As long as it is dry russian's can handle 70% everyday without problems...once they are in top shape that is. Joe Heinden has a group of 24 russians which he has had since 1991 and he lives in Columbia, South Carolina and has never had a problem. We live in greater Minneapolis and have had many weeks over the lat few years when temps are over 90 and humidity over 70% and it hasn't bother our Russians or Greek's one lick.

Good luck!

Thanks everyone for the great advice that you have given me. Right now, here is what I decided:
I have a friend who I am buying a 90 gallon tank with a reptile setup from for under $150. I am going to use this until an outside setup is built. Scott and I cannot decide on a site in the yard just yet. Also, tonight we have received over 2" of rain so I do not think that the Russians will be happy with that kind of weather!! So for now, it is more important for me to have an inside setup until I can get the outside setup done right. Now I have a new set of questions:

1. My friend who has several reptiles (snakes, lizards, & torts), uses reptile carpet instead of a layer of mulch. BUT he has never owned any Russians. Will that work or should I just use that on the bottom to aid in cleanup?

2. For the outside enclosure-Can they be in a place where it is shady most of the time due to a roof and it being under some pine trees (around 30' tall)? I can't wait to get my Russians at the house. I will keep everyone updated!

First off, make sure you cover the sides of the aquarium with an opaque material or you will drive your Russian crazy (read: stress) as it tries to go through it. They go where they can see and they can see right through aquarium glass.

My friend who has several reptiles (snakes, lizards, & torts), uses reptile carpet instead of a layer of mulch. BUT he has never owned any Russians. Will that work or should I just use that on the bottom to aid in cleanup?

No it won’t work. It will lengthening your torts acclimation period and cause them more stress. Use a 50/50 topsoil sand mix about 4-6 inches deep for a substrate. Russian’s like and NEED to dig and if you deprive them of this ability you’ll just prolong the stress. A stressed tort is a costly (read vet bills) tort.

For the outside enclosure-Can they be in a place where it is shady most of the time due to a roof and it being under some pine trees (around 30' tall)? I can't wait to get my Russians at the house. I will keep everyone updated!

They need at least 6-8 hours of sun a day. As long as the shady area gets that much sun they’ll do fine. As for worrying about rain, here’s a method I’ve used for years (actually 2 decades) that works great. For your secure tops...you will have secure tops right?..I use a 1 inch chicken wire. Go the web site I mentioned in a earlier post and you can see what I mean. Depending on how long your pen will be purchase 3-6 ¾” PVC tubes. Stick these between the holes it the chicken wire so they bow slightly. Next.purchase a 12’ x 25’ roll of 4 or 6 mil plastic sheeting. Cut it to fit over the pen and the bowed PVC tubes. You’ll have what looks like a mini-greenhouse. Hold it down on the sides with bricks. Keeps the rain out AND keeps the heat in. Mine are able to stay out until Halloween here in Minneapolis even though nighttime temps are in the mid to low 30’s. It never gets below 45 inside that little “greenhouse” and they settle in to hibernate beautifully. I just dig them up in early November, run my checklist and in the fridge they go for 3 months. If you want pix’s of what this looks like post a reply with a private e-mail and I’ll send you some pix.

Good luck

Ernie