Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, this is a matter of MUCH debate, and sometimes downright nastiness in the varanid community. (I don't know why, but the world of monitor lizards has a disproportionate number of a-holes) It makes discussions impossible sometimes. I'm glad to be pretty much leaving it...
Anyway, the subject is UV/natural sunlight. I would like to know what you folks think. I contend, and always have, that any animal that has evolved in the sun, needs sun - period. No brainer. Those that disagree would argue that "I've never used anything but incadenscent bulbs, and my lizards grow and breed, then those babies grow up and breed", etc, etc, and on and on. Or they are fossorial (spend most of thier time under ground) so sunlight isn't necessary. Not ture, monitors spend a ton of time basking! Anyway, what they are missing is that an animal's reproductive acitvity is not the only measure of health, nor is it necessarily true that all ailments or deficiencies are readily apparent to human observers. How many human maladies slowly creep up undetected, with unknown causes? Why ignore such an easily controled variable? An animal may live X number of years without ever being exposed to natural sunlight, even then, did your animal that lived X number of years under incadescent radiation really live out it's full life span? So far the two oldest monitors that I know of (26 or so years) have both lived outdoors.
Also, you or I can eat twinkies and donuts, live indoors and reproduce till we drop. Still, are we really healthy in every way? Sooner or later it catches up with you. Even humans need the sun to be in full health. Also, my lizards have always shown better color when kept outdoors in the summer. I built a large 8x10' enclosure which my lizards lived in from May through Sept.
What are your views on this? In the end if nothing else, I feel I er in favor of the animals. I bring this up because I'm not sure how I'm going to approach this with the collards. I can't risk one of those things getting loose while moving it outdoors, or back indoors. They're just too small and fast. Something small enough to carry, or wheel indoors and out would be best I think. That way I can open it when I'm back inside, and move the little guys back to their indoor home at the end of the day. I would only do this on the weekends.
Just rambling...
Thoughts?

Jim

P.S. I use metal halides on my reef tanks, and was thinking of using one on my collared vivarium. Maybe a 150w to avoid over heating.

well, i think that natural sunlight is probably best for them but not everyone can supply it all of the time so i think the bulbs do a good job of supplementing. my lizards live in screen cages and i always have them by a screen window where sunlight comes in at least part of the day. so the screen probably fliters out things but anytime the sun is on their cages they sit in it and shift with it as it moves. i also take them with me to the pool when i lay out and regulate their temps while i am there, which is never long because i burn like no tomorrow. i have little cage that has like bird cage wiring on top so the sun can get through well but the lizards cannot get out.
i doubt that being able to mate is the only sign to good health. but when i unknowingly had a sick male, he never showed signs of wanting to mate and this year despite no hibernation, all these healthy lizards can't seem to get enough of it. i know in human females that if they are really malnourished and sickly, they normally cannot keep a baby and many times do not have a menstral cycle. (some doctors believe that girls become anorexic because they are afraid of maturing and malnourishment suppresses the signs of maturation.) i am sure if a female lizard is malnourished then she most likely would not produce eggs, but i could be wrong about it, as i am no expert in lizard anatomy. so i guess what i am saying is that reproduction may not guarentee long term health but i think laying eggs would suggest that things are going pretty good for the moment. if i had a lizard who always laid eggs/showed signs of mating and then one year they stopped, i would be concerned and probably take them to the vet.
well i guess i am done rambling now too.
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vonnie
***One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. - A. A. Milne***

They really aren't too hard to catch with a noose, and you will find that most are very handleable after a while anyway. I have a 9 X 10 pen in my back yard, and my daughter was just in there the other day...one lizard in her hand, one on her knee, and was sitting on her shoulder.

You just can't beat a natural view of you critters...I have see lots of crap regarding what these lights are actually outputting as far as UVB. I still use them, but don't really trust them. I have still seen twitching from time to time in some of my females, which could simply be attributed to more calcium uptake for eggs...

Anyway. I put my lizards out the first week of May, and will try to keep them out to the first or second week of September (I live in central Illinois). I have a deep pit dug in there that is filled with busted concrete, then topped with landscaping stones. I plan to fill this with gravel to about 8" below the grounds surface. I have some lizards that like to dig in and won't come out. I want to make it easier to locate these suckers.

Enjoy...

...to both of you for the replys.

That pen looks similar to the one I kept my lizards in, only imagine a lizard a bit larger than your daughter! LOL! It also has plywood sides which will not work for these little lizards. I like your siding idea, I may just do that. The old one was getting a bit rotted, and I just threw it out last weekend.
I feel much the same way about the bulbs on the market, thus my concerns. The woman of the house doesn't want another "big ugly pen" in the yard, but I think I'll show her your pics of what a nice, landscaped enclosure can look like. I'm sure it will change her opinion. I couldn't do that with the black throats, they just smash everything - or poop on it.

Jim

Yea, the lizard pen was a compromise..."you let me build a lizard pen, and I'll build you a deck" sort of compromise. I have a little over $200 in my pen, and a little under $2K in her deck LOL see how these things work?

The siding is some skylighting material used on rooks. It comes in (I think) 36" X 8, 12, and 16'. I can't remember for sure. I do remember it is best to cut it into sections, so the corrugations run vertically instead of horizontally. It give is more strenth this way, and you can also get your height.

I took a lot of time trying to decide the best way to incorporate the pen into the design of the deck, and still have a decent amount of sunlight. It starts to get shadowed in the later evening, and gets direct light from about 9:30 am until 4:00 pm...adequate enough, and much better than bulbs

The planting are also worth planning. I have a green sedum that spreads like crazy in there. The chuckwalla does eat it some, but the best part is this...it blooms tiny yellow flowers right now that attract flies like mad. My lizards just sit anywhere in the pen, and have flies landing near them all day. I am also playing with other attractants to get the insects into the pen.

the japanese beetle traps worked great last year

Have fun convincing your wife it is necessary to replace the rotted pen you just destroyed LOL...use treated wood and definatley put some water seal on it.

J E.

It works BOTH ways,

JOIN the club JIM, THE WISH OUR SPOUSE'S WERE MORE INTO LIZRDS CLUB !

AhhahHAAAAAAA OH, and yes, IF ya DO have ALOT, be prepared TO HEAR about them from time to time,

TOP 5 LIZARD CRACKS

1. CRICKETS AGAIN ???????

2. IF I WERE A LIZARD, YOU WOULD GET THAT FOR ME

3. ALL YOU CARE ABOUT ARE THOSE DANG LIZARDS

4. YOU SPEND MORE TIME WITH THE LIZARDS THAN ME

5.****** DRUM ROLL **********

ANOTHER LIZARD ????????????????????? LOL

Hahhahahahahaa ! But then the next day I hear, I love you very much, even though you have all those those lizards.

I agree with Johneee its a trade off thing, I have plenty of AMMO being female *SMILE* Oh and hes into guitars, I NEVER disagree when he wants a NEW one, I say OH thats really cool get it !

Always good for a few more lizards, hehehheheheeh !

AHHHHHHH isn't LIFE GRANT !!!!
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Eve

I agree 100% I Think I may here the "F" more more when she describes my lizards LOL

John e

Thats even Funnier, Sockhead! A GOOD One! LOL

And Vonnie, I'm not a munipulative person , Just first time in my life I'm doing something I love, IN my SPARE time, after everything and everybody else are taken care of.

So If ya have to have trade offs at times to KEEP the peace, so be it! I wanna have FUN!
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Eve

oh eve, so manipulative, and i thought you were sweet! LOL i answer to no one but my bank account and it normally tells me NO!
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vonnie
***One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. - A. A. Milne***

Mine usually screams that at me when I look at rocks, or a new tank, or a lizard...

Laura