Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am starting to wish that only fancy expensive geckos are sold, and from reputable breeders. Not that I have anything against normals. I love normals. What really disheartens me though is that when geckos are sold cheap, their lives tend to be treated cheaply. Pet stores like Petco and Petsmart won't pay to get vet care for their young geckos, as it's not "worth it" from a cost perpective. Dead animals are written off like a shoplifted stapler as a cost of doing business. Care is substandard, as they don't want to spend the money to sterilize cages properly, keep animals seperately, quarantine, or even seperate a sick animal from healthy ones. And while some people who buy inexpensive animals DO provide proper care and take to a vet when needed, I am getting so disheartened by seeing people come here saying their gecko is half dead, very sick, has a broken back or some other serious medical problem who won't consider taking the animal to a vet because it would cost more than the animal did, or their parents don't think it's "worth it".

I suppose that when you get your animal from a store that treats it like a commodity, it is easier to treat the animal like a commodity. When you buy an animal for cheap, it is easier to value its life more cheaply. Is there any sense of responsiblity for taking care of a living creature when you put its life in your hands? Is there any awareness that animal cruelty laws apply to reptiles, too?

We can advise and lecture all we want, we can report stores like Petco To Animal Care and Control, but I don't think we can fundamentally change the economic equation many people make in their heads.

What I do know is that if someone spends $100, $200, $300 or more on a gecko that gecko is likely to have a much better life and get the care it needs if it gets sick than a gecko that costs $20.

Talk about an evolutionary advantage.

very well stated n/p
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I totally agree with you that when an animal is sold cheap, people dont feel its life is worth much, sad, yes, right, NO. I love normals aswell, and any animal I wuld have would be given the same treatment as others. Really, when an animal is expensive, if it were to die, people would be like "and we spent 200$ on that thing".
I think one way we can try to get less of this is by educating the youth. Now, Im only 13, but i know a hell of alot of stuff on geckos and such, and am very responsible about keeping my gecko. Why? Because I have respect for animals, and dont buy something because oh you can feed it mice or something like that. People that dont care as much about their animals because they're pretty much worthless should NOT be involved in this hobby IMO. L8er
Mac

I agree, but there's more than just a bottom line factor going on. The problem is that people haven't learned to respect herps as living, feeling creatures yet.

You may get a puppy or kitten for free, but you EXPECT to pay for shots and veterinary care. You would never allow a serious injury or an illness to go untreated, and if you did, you would be in commission of a felony, and be prosecuted if what you did were discovered.

The humane societies and animal control facilities do NOT understand herps. They don't have the slightest idea how to tell a herp is being housed wrongly, mistreated, or neglected, in the vast majority of cases. Like fish, they are considered more decoration than living animal. Until THIS changes--until people start to see that they have personality, and emotions, that they can feel pain and can suffer....until people start to identify with them--it's all going to continue.

We've made a lot of progress in the past 10 years. TREMENDOUS progress, in this area. All we can do is keep it up. With hope, eventually reptiles and amphibians will be fully included in anti-cruelty law-enforcement, rather than just given lip-service--the people in charge of enforcing the laws will be trained in what to look for, and what constitutes appropriate minimal care for them, and in how to determine if an animal is sick or injured. People who keep them will also treat them like living things rather than commodities.

Let's face it...for every few herp breeding facilities out there which treat their animals with the best of care, and attend to all their medical needs, we also have a few equivalents of the puppy mill--facilities that provide only the minimum of care needed to get the animals to breed, and simply ignore health problems or injuries in inexpensive animals. Importers may shotgun new arrivals for parasites...or not. Some ethical importers treat for parasites, quarantine the sick and attempt to diagnose and treat apparent illnesses, and ensure that the animals are feeding, before they sell them. Others do much less.

Our role in this is to educate people when we can, and buy from ethical importers and breeders--to check out the facilities of the people we buy from, and avoid buying from those who engage in neglect and cruelty. Until public education catches up, the responsibility is in the hands of those who already have that education.

Some people don't respect ANYTHING.
I work at a pet store that sells primarily dogs. Our prices are pretty high because we back them up for a year on cogential/hereditary defects, give you a free vet visit and a 15 day general health coverage.

I've seen my coworkers have $900.00 dogs go home to what looks like a happy family and the dog will get a cold and they won't take it to our vet because an extra 10 minutes is too far to drive. Thus the dog will not get treated and get pnumonia.

I try to screen the customers as much as possible before I send a pup home with them. I've even refused to sell dogs to people before. Particularly the ones that say something like 'Oh...well... I accidently ran over my dog today so I need another one.' But some people just care for the moment and then forget about it.

People complain about going to the pound and getting a dog there because it's cheaper. And while yes, adoptions are noble causes, most dogs are there for a reason. I've spoken to people who have had dogs die from parvo after being adopted only 3 days earlier.
2 facilities had to be shut down and a majority of the animals put down because of a distemper outbreak last year.

I do agree that reptiles are severely overlooked when it comes to humane issues tho. I just needed to add too the dog and cat thing.

I agree that it does happen with dogs or cats aswell, but if you think about it, would you rather take an animal to a vet that you payed 900$ for (a dog) or a cheap 20$ gecko that you bought at a show? Its pretty basic knowledge to know what a dog needs in general, but not as many people are willing to give good homes to reptiles. There are alot of neglected dogs and cats out there, but people are more willing to give them good homes and treat them then they are say, a six foot iguana in need of a home, do you see my point? Either way, its a sad sad world with way too many neglected animals in general, whether it be a dog or cat, or a reptile.

My point is... that even though we give you a free vet visit with the dog, people will still refuse to bring the dog to the vet. It's FREE. They just don't wanna pay the extra gas.
And about providing better care for $900 dogs? Someone just came back after buying a dog last week saying that it got out and got hit by a car. A 9 week old dog.
Almost every week we get a letter from the vet about a dog that went hypoglcemic, meaning the owner wasn't feeding the pup properly. Mind you we have people sign a sheet on how to feed the puppy (including special diet puppies) and give them a copy for at home.
People just don't listen or do research.
Oh...and domestic kittens? $100 with first shot and worming, and a free vet visit. 'There's kittens in the paper for cheaper.'

Also... consider just how long dogs have been kept as pets. Thousands of years. Reptiles are still particularly new. People find out new facts on how to care for them every day. Keeping a reptile is still fairly out of the norm to most people.
Reptiles are still misunderstood.
I've had children and teenagers come over to me while handling the reptiles we've had at the store and parents yank them away claiming they'll get bit, sick or plain 'it's creepy'.

Just saying reptiles have it so bad technically isn't true considering what I've seen and heard after working where I have the last two years.

But yes. I do agree more people will give a mammal better care than a reptile, but there's still some sick people out there.
And I do agree that $20 animals get it worse than a $900 animal. But just saying that all of those expensive animals get it easy is not the truth.

no doubt about it. But I still think there is a different level of consciousness about them, and about how much one pays for an animal. I think MOST people who buy a $900 dog will take it to the vet if it gets sick, as would a $900 gecko. Money talks, and I do think more expensive animals end up getting better care by humans. Which is sad because an animal doesn't understand purebred, morph, what it costs...it just wants to be well cared for, fed, healthy, clean and parasite-free, and not in pain, and in the case of dogs...loved.

It is sad, luckily most people in the hobby do take great care of their, not so fancy leos. But there are cases where when people see in dollar signs, and dont care about an animal that wont get them any big money.
MaC

The problem is that most people will take their 20 dollar cat or dog to the vet, but NOT their 20 dollar gecko.

Yes, there are always nasty people who won't care for any animal properly, but proportionately, people will go further for a cat or dog than for a lizard.

I totally see where your coming from, some people are just plain lazy really. They CAN take it to the vet, but they're just not willing to. Its stupid really, and those poeple just sicken me to be honest.

That is absolutely true,
the high end morphs get the extra special treatment from most breeders. Even when you goto the reptile shows, you see the normals getting sold in bulk, almost 50 geckos in one big tank, while the high end morphs get their own deli cups. But thats how it is... : /
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My Site

I totally agree with you. Unfortunently as long as people do not understand or respect the creatures in there, and all other creatures many people will not take the time to properly care for it. I can only hope that with time people will become more responsiable for all living things and also for their own actions.

Many of the points you stated or some of the reasons why I have not decided to breed my geckos. Even though I try to provide the best possible care for my reptiles and would do so for the offspring. The fact is I would not be breeding hypo tangs or albinos, ect. The leos I have are high yellows, and a jungle with many different genes and possbilitys of producing albinos or patts, ect. They would still not be considered "high-end" and thus I wouldn't be getting the same amount or even quality (only in some cases) that I would with the "special" leos. Although I consider all leos (and all other living creatures) to be special many people do not.

I agree 100% and with all the other posts in responce. I believe the main reason for mistreatment is a lack of education. People i know still believe herps are slimy, gross, even EVIL things not worthy of living let alone being treated well. It saddens me greatly to know that we as a race have developed so much yet still cling to old misgivings and prejudices.

Red

Too many people don't look at them as a pet.
Reptiles are too new in the home to get much of a good word in. Dogs and cats? Thousands of years in the home. Reptiles? What...maybe a hundred or so?

People lack the education.

In another hundred years or so things will be easier. But there's still too many people that don't care. Animals are animals and people are people to them. Animals aren't as intelligent as people so they don't deserve a status in society or top notch medical care.
It's sickening that so many people think that way. But it's true.

In my opinion, its their loss if they cant see the beauty in such great animals like leos. Whenever I show my leo to one of my moms friends or sumthing, they think its gunna bite or give them some disease, its stupid, so uninformed. I think reptiles are better pets than dogs or cats, you cant be allergic to em, dont have to take em for walks, wont ruin furniture and are only a couple hundred dolloars to give a nice home, as compared to a dog that cost about 1000 dollars alone just for the dog. Dont get me wrong, I HAVE a dog and they're great, I just think its really dumb how people dont see them as something that actaully make great pets, and are very friendly. Whats even sadder, is when people are interested in reptiles, after they see one in a pet store. They're given wrong advice, and then they're new pet wont move or do anything cause they're doing sumthing wrong, but they dont know it. They get bored with it, and then start to veiw it as a disposible pet and they dont take it to a vet. It dies, and for the rest of their lives they veiw reptiles as bad pets that are boring and dont anything. Sorry, im rambling but this subject really makes me mad and i had to vent. Later
MaC

I agree with you on most of your points, except one. You CAN be allergic to geckos, I am allergic to anything with fur or feathers and have now become allergic to my geckos. However, I am able to keep them in my home because unlike cats, dogs, and birds, they do not shed loose epithelial cells (dander), so the allergens do not spread through the air. I often get welts after handling my animals if they scratch me though, and I have tubes of hydrocortisone cream ready to fix that. I could where gloves, but I don't feel it is that bad to require that.

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I've always preferred to be around animals than people. In my opinion humans are lower than any animal. At least in nature theres a balance......or was before we started distroying it. I've been told so many times that reptiles are gross, get a cat. I can't stand people like that. Don't get me wrong i love cats and i have the cutest little dog, but theres something about watching a gecko stock a cricket, bask or curl up in a cave that i really enjoy. I wish people could see how wonderful they really are!

Red

I totally know what you mean, cats and dogs arent the only things on this planet that make good pets.