Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am not interested in breeding. Would a single female Greek or Russian Tortoise be happier by herself, or would she be lonely and want another female as a companion?
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

better of keeping them alone. Especially if you are not interested in breeding. They MAY fight, they are not like humans they will NOT get lonely.

Christina
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0.0.1 Hatchling Indian Star Tortoise (Sitara)
1.1 Russian Tortoise (Willy & Mikey)
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Lily)
1.0 Red Eared Slider (Chester)
0.0.2 White's Tree Frog (Kermit & Phil)
0.0.1 Red eyed Tree Frog (Justin)
0.0.1 Big Eyed Tree Frog
0.0.2 Bubbling Frog
0.0.2 Tiger Leg Tree Frogs (Akari & Shiro)
0.0.3 Amazonian Milky Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Dwarf Megophrys
0.0.2 Rainbow Burrowing Frog/Ornate Hopper
0.0.1 Asian Blue Webbed Gliding Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Albino Pacman Frog
0.1 Praire Dog (Timmy)
0.2 Chinchillas (Layla & Snickers)
0.3 mice
0.1 dog (Holly)
2.0 Cats (Champ & Bear)

Oh and a husband

I don't know if they 'like' company but any tortoises that I have in groups seem to have an added dimension that seems to hint towards a preference to be social. They definately interact. The norm is not to be violent although there might be an occasional atlercation. Without a doubt, with the research you are doing, I would be very surprised if you stopped at one tortoise.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I agree with Ed. They are solitary creatures in the wild, but they do seem to "enjoy" the company of others of their species. Never had any fights with any of my females of any species I've had now or in the past. Have had two females Greek's (Ibera) together for 15 years without incendent.

Ed's also right in that they become an addiction. Like the old Lays potato chip ad, you can't stop with just one.

I'm sure I will have trouble staying with just one or two, but lack of space will keep that in check. Although if I do build the 7 foot by 4 foot enclosure down the road I could probably sneak more in... As you can see by my sig line I'm addicted to animals in general, but am pretty good at keeping to just one of each species (with the exception of the Leos which I breed and Ferrets which thrive being in a group). My husband came downstairs last night and saw the enclosure set up. Wanted to know what I was going to do with it. He doesn't like animals, and isn't happy with the number that I have. He isn't thrilled about the idea of a Tortoise but just rolled his eyes and sighed like he does with every new addition...
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

... since i know you keep a group of redfoots.

i've been thinking of getting another redfoot, myself.

based on pics i've seen, i'm maybe 80-90% sure that mine is a male (he's about 9 months old; is that old enough to tell? would a picture help?). if i get another, should i get another male, or will they fight? i know they're not as aggressive as russians are, and i realize that "who's the boss?" spats coudl happen, but could they generally get along?

or should i get a female? or would a male pester the living crap out of a female if they lived together all the time?

and if i get another, should i do it while he's still young? would it weird him out to grow to adulthood pretty much not knowing any other torts and then put one in with him (after quarantine, of course)?

just wondered what your two cents were.

Thank you both for your thoughts. I am on the fence between getting one or two, my thinking being that buying greens for a single tortoise would likely result in a lot of waste since it's doubtful one could go through the food before it would go bad. Not the best reason for getting a second tortoise, that's for sure. My thought on it being good to have just one was that I plan to plant some of the Tortoise Mix seed I found online. I don't have children (so no swingsets or little romping feet) and don't use pesticide or week killer in my yard. My backyard is filled with dandelions and clover. I might build an outdoor pen down the road, but for now I'd just take the little girl out and let her browse with me supervising. One would be easier to keep tract of than two, since two might wander in opposite directions leaving me in a dilema. Again not a real good reason not to have two, I could just build the pen or bring them out one at a time... If I go with two I will buy them from the same group and be sure to watch them as long as possible to see who seems to get along with who. The pet store I go to has a group of Greeks and my friend works there and pays alot of attention to them since she's nuts over Turtles and Tortoises. She already knows their personalities. One of the males is a little ham. Will come right up to you as soon as you open the door. Of course he also tries to eat your fingers! I like a light colored female, even though she graced me with a full tortoise shower the first time I picked her up. Important lesson learned. Looking at their tummies is NOT worth it! Do they make Tortoise diapers? I take my animals with me to do public demos. Might be dangerous to be in the front row!
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

If you have a yard full of edible stuff, and you are keeping your tortoise indoors, then go outside and pull some of the clover and weeds and feed it to the tort! And to save on greens, try to buy stuff that you might eat too. If you have lots of weeds, then you may need only a few greens now and then. Things like endive, spring mix, etc., taste good to many people and are also good for torts. I even like mustard greens (not lots, but well enough to put on a sandwich.)

See if you can find a store that sells loose greens. Instead of being forced into buying pre-packed bundles, you could avoid waste by buying the little that you need.

But I think buying stuff that you can eat too is maybe the best way. That and using your yard full of weeds as your main source.

I say start with one tortoise, and see how it goes. Start with a female, so you can later add another female if you just want torts and no eggs. Or a male if you get ambitious.

Will females still produce eggs even with no males present? I have female Leos dropping eggs who have never been with a male. I was wondering if there are ever any problems with females getting egg bound if all of their eggs are infertile due to no male?

If I did get just one girl now, how hard would it be to introduce a second one down the road?

Can you mix Greeks and Russians? Sorry if this is a taboo topic, I'm just curious. I've heard that there are often Russians in need of new homes through the local rescue groups (none available right now) and I was thinking it would be nice to give one a home, but unsure if I could do that if I went with the Greek now?
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

Will females still produce eggs even with no males present?

Hasn't happened in my experience, but that doesn't count for much.

If I did get just one girl now, how hard would it be to introduce a second one down the road?

Probably not difficult. Females seem OK with each other unless they are ready to lay eggs. Then they can get a little aggressive. Oh, and you must have enough room for both tortoises to have a place to bask and hide.

Can you mix Greeks and Russians?
I hear you can, but it just increases the risk of sickness and injury. Russians are almost all wild caught and often carry diseases. You'd have to quarantine the new animals for at least 3-6 months, and even then they can bring in illnesses. And then there are the microbes that each species carries that are harmless to themselves but potentially deadly to other species. And finally, male russians are territorial and pretty rough when it comes breeding time, and they might harm a Greek tortoise that doesn't understand the behaviors.

I say keep one species per pen unless you have alternate facilities for housing in case things don't work out. And be prepared for increased risk of illness.

Will females still produce eggs even with no males present?

Yes, however it's dependant on the female being mature and WC. They can hold sperm for 3-5 years. Had it happen twice with Berlandier's many years ago.

If I did get just one girl now, how hard would it be to introduce a second one down the road?

I agree with Brad. The only time you would have issues with females is at egg laying time. Gravid Ibera and Graeca females get pretty ornery if kept in a small enclosure.

Can you mix Greeks and Russians?

Ed will jump all over me, but my answer is no if they are WC. Never, ever mix WC species… period. End of story. I could tell you too many stories of friends and acquaintances that mixed and paid a dear price…even after suitable quarantine. It’s still a potential issue with CB, but less so as long as the previous owner wasn’t an idiot about the husbandry.

Males of any of the Greek variants are very aggressive. They can give a male Russian a good run for the money. As for breeding behavior, Ibera’s are rammers and biters, Graeca are rammers. Russian’s take the prize. They chase, head bob, then bite and bite and bite some more. Many times it looks more like a piranha attack than mating behavior.

I put my old Russian male in with the females yesterday and it always amazes me just how fast those little buggers can race around a 6 x 16 pen when their hormones are raging. Like a four-legged NASCAR race.

I hope this might change your mind but you're missing the fun part of it which is the miracle of life...the emerging of babies (turtles/tortoises that is) they are darn cute, less problematic...parasite free and A GUARANTEED SOLD OUT at: " show n' tell" as any 5 years-old will tell ya...

I have not hatched out any baby reptiles yet. I have Leo eggs in my incubator now, if they hatch it might wet my whistle a bit more. I have two eggs in my incubator now that might hatch into something a bit more interesting...

I don't expect these to hatch as they went through a lot before ending up in my incubator. I'll post pics if they do hatch. I'm guessing people who like Torts would like little Turtles too!

One of the other Greeks that I like is a male, but I read that just a single pair probably won't breed, that you need a group. My problem with breeding is that I would be nutty when finding homes for the babies. I could not wholesale, and could not bring myself to sell to someone I didn't believe would take good care of the baby. I'd likely end up trying to keep them all! I even have trouble when I'm in a pet store and see people buying animals who are clearly unprepared for them. I've often tried talking people into other choices if I get the chance. Saw a guy buy a baby Reticulated Python once. I tried desperately to talk him out of it (the sales guy did too). It was just a baby and he was afraid of it already. He only owned one snake, a BP who he "wore" around his neck like decoration. He admitted he wouldn't keep it when it was full grown. He wanted it because it was "cool" not because he cared about the animal. Luckily nobody is going to try to buy a baby Greek for that reason, but I still think I'd have trouble parting with them just the same. I'd rather give them away to someone I knew to be a good home than sell them for big bucks to a bad home. Sorry for the ramble... I'm sure you all feel the same way about your little babies!
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

...oh, yes, we all overlaped many points that you brought up somehow! at least for tortoises they don't breed like bunnies (well, except a certain species if you are not careful!), there are many people out there who adopted turtle and tortoises for genuine reason and there's also clubs and organizations that can do the screen test for you regarding the new owners for your pets... another good reason about these babies is their vital roles in this vicious cycles: more captive babies equal less demands in the wild equal less value in $$$ equal more affordable to more people...equal more babies..equal more babies and so... (so to speak about our hope in the near future!)
for now, I don't know what kind of audience that you had for your demos, our little ones pulls in droves of his and her's school and neighbours friends to our place including weekends which could be a pain sometimes...but again, wouldn't you rather had a brand new baby free of parasite and full of energy that will output a glorious and colourful show?