Reptile & Amphibian Forums

we have a whole house full of reptiles, my fiance wants to add uromastyx to the collection, we have seen them mixed with equal sized bearded dragons at pet stores, is this ok for a permanent housing arrangement. We have a male and a female in a 75 gallon aquarium that measures 4ftx2.5ftx2ft high.

no no no no no

Housing different species together is never a good idea.

First of all they have very different temperature requirments, for instance an adult uro needs temps in both the warm and cool end of the enclosure to be AT LEAST 15 degrees hotter than an adult beardie. Not to mention the bacteria and parasites present in beardie fecal matter that is harmless to beardies can be very harmful to your uro, and vice versa.

Don't ever think that because a pet store does a certain thing that it's ok for the animals. More often than not they aren't doing what's in the best interest of the animals, but what is in the best inerest of their space and pocketbooks. I'm willing to bet they only put the uros in with the beardies to make more room for other animals in the other cages. More animals in stock = more sales = more $$$$.

-----
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

As a general rule it is not a good idea to keep different species in the same cage, but if the species have similar needs and are non-aggressive it can work. I have seen Beardies and Uros housed together with no problems. The key is to make sure they're is enough room for the two species to avoid one another if they desire. To this end you will need a large cage with multiple basking spots. Chances of infections are from fecal material is low. The main problem is whether one species intimidates the other. If they both act docile to one another, you should be fine.

I live in the Dallas area, and our local zoo has a great reptile display with several species of lizards housed together. I've also seen several multiple species displays at many conservation sights in Arizona and New Mexico.

I live in Dallas too, and I wouldn't use that zoo as a good example. The housing for many of their animals is outdated and at times disgusting.
-----
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

You don't think putting a uro in with a sexually active male and female beardie is going to create an agressive situation? You don't think it's possible that the male beardie will be territorial and protective of his female? Maybe, maybe if all of the animals were female it might work, but your tank would have to be much larger than the person who started this thread has to create the right temperature gradients and space for the animals to get away from each other. In my opinion, it is always better to be safe than sorry.

These lizards aren't pals and they don't need each other for company. These lizards would never put themselves in close proximity with each other in the wild. The only reason anyone would put them in the same enclosure is because they don't want the hassle of buying another enclosure for the different species. In my opinion, if you aren't willing to buy seperate housing for your individual pets and their needs, then you don't need to be getting those pets at all.

You will never, ever catch me telling a person that it's ok to put two different species in the same tank. Your casual reptile owner is not experienced enough to provide all the perfect conditions needed for it to work without it begging to create a stressful situation for all the animals involved. Even then it isn't always the best.

As to the Dallas Zoo, if you are referring to the huge enclosure they have outside the reptile house, I always thought most of those reptiles looked awfully stressed and sickly. Of course it's been a couple of years since I went there, maybe it's better now, but I doubt it. I'm not going back to that place until they at least get their big cats out of those 19th century metal and concrete cages, which could be never considering their funding problems right now.
-----
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

You are probably right in the specific case you outlined in your post, but blanket statements that no two reptile species should ever be kept together is not accurate. All zoos do it. I see turtles with alligators, chuckwallas with spiny tailed iguanas, etc, etc. Rail on the Dallas zoo if you want, but I think they do a far better job than most keepers, so attacking them isn't constructive. The examples I listed above were at many zoos, including the San Diego zoo, which is one of the most highly regarded zoos in the country.

"You are probably right in the specific case you outlined in your post, but blanket statements that no two reptile species should ever be kept together is not accurate. All zoos do it."

My statement was in regards to casual reptile hobbyists doing it, not zoos. If you want to bring zoos into the discussion we should mention that most zoos have tons more experience and qualifications than a person keeping reptiles as a hobby, so it's more acceptable. They have the time, expertise, funding, and all the proper requirements to do it succesfully. That doesn't mean we should try it at home. Most causal reptile owners do not have the know how and understanding of these animals to do it properly.

Not to mention, when animals are placed in the same enclosures at the zoo, it's because they are all from the same habitats. Alligators and turtles come from the same habitats as do chuckwallas and desert iguanas, so for these animals it is perfectly natural to be around each other. Uromastyx and bearded dragons, on the other hand, come from completely different sections of the world. They would never cross each other's paths in the wild, and putting them together in captivity is not a natural thing for them. Just because they are both from desert species doesn't automatically mean they share a habitat. Add to that the fact that males of both species tend to be quite territorial and agressive to other males, so if you get one of each in the same small cage you could have a serious problem on your hands.

"Rail on the Dallas zoo if you want, but I think they do a far better job than most keepers, so attacking them isn't constructive."

Maybe they do a better job than most casual reptile owners, if only because too many reptile owners are uneducated about proper husbandry. Compared to other zoos, though, they do not do a better job than most. Using them as an example of how this husbandry is ok is no more constructive than attacking them.

Besides, I've never seen them housing beardies and uros together anyways. Do all those other zoos house beardies and uros together specifically, or are you referring to the iguanas and chuckwallas when you say they house multiple reptiles species together? I've been to a lot of great zoos in this country, but I've never seen beardies and uros in the same enclosure that I can recall.

-----
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

Not that I'm going to do it but I've been looking into buying a Blue Tongue Skink so I'm studying and both the BD and BTS come from australia and have similar needs in temp and eat similar except the BTS eats more kinds of meats.So could you house a female BD and a female BTS in a very large enclosure?
-----
My Leo's
1.0.0 Normal
0.1.0 Tremper Albino
My Beardie
0.0.1 Red x Gold

Well, again my opinion is that no casual reptile owner should attempt housing different species together. This is a delicate thing and it should be left to the professionals, if anyone.
-----
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

peers he has contributed to their books or written say different.

Are they not following their own vets advise?

This member asked about uros and bearded dragon I think, Kephy answered with what the major herp veterinarian advice, including Dr. Douglas Mader.

They specifically also state that "reptiles from different areas of the world should NEVER be housed in the same enclosures because their systems may have different flora and organisms. Organisms that may be commensals for one type of reptile, may be pathogenic in other species. Disinfecting enclosures between animals and betweem species is critical to minimize the spread of disease." What Kephy stated and last I checked, I believe that uro's and bearded dragons come from different continents.

Pet stores often display lizards for sale in community tanks, suggesting that these are social animals. However, lizards are highly territorial and are stressed by the presence of conspecifics.

I know that some zoo's may ignore that advice, but I also know that zoos which are big on conservation like Busch Gardens with the funding for proper care of their collective species, never house or mix them together. That's just very risky and should be avoided for their well being.
-----
www.reptilerooms.com

Thanks Cheri. I knew you would have some resources and info to add to the discussion.
-----
2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

Are they refering to wild caught or captive bred specimens? I would not mix a wild caught Uro with a BD but don't see why that statement would apply to healthy captive bred animals. Could you also provide a reference for the quote?
-----
Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

even though some zoos unfortunately do mix, it's kind of a mute point to compare housing. There's no comparison between a zoo enclosure and a tank in someone's home..
-----
www.classylizard.com

That tank wouldn't be large enough anyway, in fact, your male and female should be separated. Beardies are usually only kept in female/female situations to prevent overbreeding.
-----

Would you house a Leopard and a Cheetah in the same enclosure? They are both native to Africa and pretty much the same regions eating the same prey. My opinion is based on common sense and my common sense dictates that this wouldn't be a wise decision.

I have never housed birds of different species together and avoid housing birds of the same species together once they are past the adolescent stage. It just doesn't work.

I have never seen African Elephants housed with Asian Elephants and they are very similar to one another. I am sure there is a good reason for it.

None of this gives anyone a specific answer to the question at hand but it does give everyone something to think about.