Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We took a hike with our herp society in Western NY. Found 5 big massasaugas out basking.

It's fun trying hear their high pitched buzz and then figure out where its coming from.

Nice pics, Matt! As far as my experience goes, 5 in one day is a very good day. Only ever found one because it was rattling. What time of day did you find them and and how were the conditions up there? I miss those little buggers.

Bill

Time was ~10:30AM. Mostly Sunny, was heating up rather quickly. Temp in low-mid 70s. Snakes were mostly on edges of hummocks or on top of them, but near bushes. None really moved upon discovery; not until 4 or 5 people gathered to take pics, did any of them really head for cover.

The two that I found, I heard the rattling before I spotted them. I heard the rattle, then located the closest bush it was coming from, then one or two people surround the bush to pinpoint the source of the buzz. I was pretty well soaked and had sunk in mud and ooze up to my thighs by the time we got to the habitat.

Matt

Very rare snake out here in PA. Idiots still go on snake hunts here even though the snake is endangered in PA! You can't hunt those but the smaller timber rattlers can be hunted but not killed. Now what makes these idiots in office think that the hunters won't go back and destroy dens?

While I do agree with one law that states you can kill a venomous reptile if your life is in danger people just go out and kill them just because they are snakes. The only reason I agree with the law i mentioned above was in my uncles cabin in the Poconos here in PA a large adult copper head found his way inside and I had my 2 y.o son there with me. I opened the door to let the copper head out and he didnt move. I sent my ex with my son into the bed room and the copper head started to follow them in a attacking manor! I then tried to get the snake out of the cabin with a broom but he actually started to charge me! I left him alone for another 10 mins and went back over and he was very aggressive. At that point I said forget this and started to sweep the thing toward the door with the broom. Big mistake. He started to charge me as I kept on sweeping him toward the door. I managed to get him right at the door and he DARTED back inside! I just killed this snake as I have never seen a copper head so aggressive before. I checked thinking maybe it had eggs but there were none around the cabin.This snake was just nasty. I didn't want to kill it but my son was in the house and didn't want to take any chances with this guy.

hahahahhahahahahhahaha! Probably the "best" story I have ever heard! (charging Copperhead). However, I have heard that they will bite their tail and form a hoop, and roll towards you!

You're right, saugas are exceedingly rare in PA. Good thing not many know where they are.

Copperheads don't lay eggs, they give live birth. I'd venture a guess that that copperfella was not acting in an aggressive manner, but rather trying to flee toward cover(i.e.- darkness, under beds, couches, anything that might resemble a crevice). They don't know what a house is, or for that matter, that it may appear to be acting in what may be construed as a threatening manner. Why wouldn't it just go outside? It was feeling threatened by you and your family, the last place they want to be is out in the open when feeling like that. That might be why it kept coming back in, to find a dark place where it may be able to avoid your advances. Next time, please sweep a little harder.

creep

There are TONS of Copperheads up there...Most common snake around and usually they don't bother anyone. When I tell you that I had the snake almost out the door it quickly darted back inside the house. He was a fairly large Copperhead to,I am guessing about 4-4 1/2 feet. I thought there was definately something wrong with him the way he was acting because I never seen one that aggressive before. Now I don't mind the around the house because they keep the Voles/Mice and other rodents away but when one wigs out like that it got me a little nervous cause they are usually pretty passive. I didn't feel like getting nailed by him and with my ex all wigged out in the bedroom as well I just got pissed and killed the snake. Only snake I ever killed. If it was non venomous I would have just picked him up and threw him back outside.

Are the eastern 'saugas all that dark in your area? The sistrurus c. that I find in Illinois are much paler (to some degree). Great pics and thanks for sharing this often under appreciated rattler. Rob

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

Yeah Rob, all the ones I've seen tend to be darker, though the pattern is quite visible. Some have been dark due to being in shed, but others are still pretty dark. Have never found a completely melanistic one though.

The only real light phase one I've ever seen, is the captive male I have. He's now 3 1/2 years old, adn still very bolding marked. He was captive born in MI, so I assume thats where the parentage was from.

Matt

"boldly marked"...that's what happens when I am trying to get actual work done and read the forums at the same time. A severe multi-tasking/time management problem!

i was just curious as to what region of wny you were in, not specific just general area. also if you ever plan another trip in the area, i would love to join you. send me an email or give me a call 716-940-1268.

greg

It would have had to have been Bergen Swamp.

Could've been, but no it wasn't. Not that far west.

I could have sworn in you're initial post that you said western NY. Since Bergen swamp is the only area to hold massasauga's in western NY, it only made sense. Especially considering the only other place that has them is Cicero, which is about smack in the middle of NY. Unless you know something that the DEC doesn't.

whoops, that's "your" not "you're" initial post. It's early.

Yeah, you're right on the locations, but I was trying to prevent what you just did, i.e., blatantly listing the swamps they're in. Anyone who's interested in looking for them can easily go to the DEC Herp Atlas and see what map quadrangles they're in.....assuming they have the gumption to do so.

The info is out there for those with the inclination to look for it.

Sorry, I forgot to mention to you about the hike as well. It hit me last week that I should've dropped you a note. If I get back out that way, i'll drop you a note, and we'll go plodding through the swamps.

you knew something the DEC didn't....IE. new populations. It's been a while since we last spoke, if you do make it around, let me know. I didn't even think about telling the locations of the two areas, I just assumed it was common knowledge, unlike some of the areas that hold timbers.
-tom

it is public knowledge, yet few people still seem to know where to look for the info. Even so, it's still tough as nuts trying to penetrate those swamps.

I wouldn't be surprised though, that there are other populations....of course, no bioligist is gonna go getting overly ambitious about finding them. That'd be like opening a can of worms: Endangered Species--> Habitat protection --> Stopping developers ==> pi$$ing off voters.........you see where I'm going.

The way of thinkign in New York State: If it doesn't brign in revenue, it's not worth having around or spending any time on. Hence our pending legislation. $20 PER ANIMAL FOR A LICENSE? GIVE ME A FREAKIN' Break! So a license for a tiger, will cost the same as for a timber rattlesnake! HAHAHAHAHAHHAH#^$&#^&$^, actually, I should be crying!

i kinda knew of the 2 locations you were talking about( between the dec herp atlas and some info i have gone over at the local BOCES conservation program, where i am on the curriculum advisory board) , thats why i said general area. i was just looking if it was wny or cny. either way i would love to come out on a hike with you guys to get some pics. if you guys would like to talk to me before hand, to make sure i am sincere in my intentions, feel free to give me a shout.

greg

I have to head back out to Syracuse in September to give a talk to the U.H.A. in mid-September. If I have time, I'd like to go back out and see if any massasuagas are still in the same area or if they spread out.

I'll drop you a note, before then...or if I forget, send me an email and remind me.

Matt