Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Lately alot of my adult mice are dropping like flies. Nothing in my husbandry has changed and the mice do not appear sick.
What should I do?
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1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa adults
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa 2003
0.1 Rubber Boa
0.2 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.2Western Hognose Snakes
1.1 Womas
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
1.1 Leopard tortoises
1 Pleco
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis
1 silver arrowana
1 sentenal bichir

uhh... I think that is it.

I think I might know the answer to this one. They're old. Mice, when bread hard (as we tend to do), only live for 8 to 9 months. OK so if they're not old and don't appear sick, what's the temperature like. Does it ever get over 90 in the room. Those pans don't have a fan and a adult mouse will produce 1.5 btu. I killed over 300 on a cool day not venting the transport box. Lastly it could be diet. Look at some of the previous threads on protein content and fat. Sonya was kind enough to give us some excellent resources as to the proper food. Pretty much works like this. If it's bad for you, it's bad for them. best I can tell they should be getting about 18-20% protein and 8% crude fat for lactating females. keep in mind the males arn't nursing so the fat just builds up and POW they kill over.

That's my best guestment.

thanks for the imput.
Heat is not the problem
I don't think diet is the problem
The females are dying not the males
I don't think it's age either

what else are we missing?
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1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa adults
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa 2003
0.1 Rubber Boa
0.2 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.2Western Hognose Snakes
1.1 Womas
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
1.1 Leopard tortoises
1 Pleco
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis
1 silver arrowana
1 sentenal bichir

uhh... I think that is it.

Yeah, I don't know. NO bite marks? No abdominal swelling indicating a bad pregnancy? Are they skinny and ruffled as they would be dehydrated? Fresh pine shaving weekly? ratio of 1.4? Dishwashing the water bottles to kill all bacteria? Using bleach when washing pans? Do they have a photo period or are they always in a dark room? Is the wire mesh painted and are they eating the paint and is the paint lead based? (that was a joke)

Assuming all this is done, I would suspect a bug that you need a microscope to see. Also there are quite a few studies about respitory infections in lab rats. I can only assume this holds true for mice.

My advice would be to ensure you use bleach to kill everything when you wash. Don't forget to spray the lids. Dishwash the water bottles, and check your food for molds and the like. After that you would need lab work and a vet. At that point it's probably easier to freze them and start over.

Here's a thought. If you introduce a new female to the pan does she croak too? can you isolate the occurences to certain pans?

>>Lately alot of my adult mice are dropping like flies. Nothing in my husbandry has changed and the mice do not appear sick.
>>What should I do?

I would strongly suspect a virus. Healthy one minute, dead the next....virus. Sometimes it there are lingering. Sometimes young just don't seem to thrive then you lose adults after a day of hunkering in a corner.

If it were me and I was losing large numbers I would tend to freeze off the whole mess and cut loses. Start over....a superior pain. If you are only losing from a group here and there.....you may ride it out. Be sure and tend to the sickies last to lower spreading it around.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

do you think that it would be ok to feed the mice off if I keep them frozen for awhile?
-----
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa adults
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boa 2003
0.1 Rubber Boa
0.2 Eastern Hognose Snakes
2.2Western Hognose Snakes
1.1 Womas
1.0 African Hedgehog
1.0 Sulcata
1.1 Leopard tortoises
1 Pleco
2 Silver Dollars
3 Bosemian Rainbows
1 Cory Cat
1 Upside Down Catfish
2.0 Fire Guramis
1 silver arrowana
1 sentenal bichir

uhh... I think that is it.

>>do you think that it would be ok to feed the mice off if I keep them frozen for awhile?

I personally would kill off and freeze any that look healthy right now. If there are some looking crappy and on death's door I would just kill and toss them. I do know people that feed off sicky or tumored mice without apparent bad effect on the snakes. I do not do it.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

Age! Age! Age!

I've had GREAT luck breeding mice... but a couple of times a year I have trouble. You would think I would learn! As with the last couple of springs, I had a population explosion and feeling like I was overrun with mice, sold off a huge number to the petstore.. only to be appalled to have my breeders start dropping off, and production drop to almost zero. This seems to happen twice a year... spring and fall... and suddenly this year, after losing all the critters, I realized fully that it was age... I would have a die-off, and then do lots of replacing, then another die off. Now, in the fall, and in the spring, when I have a huge population explosion, and it's time to send the mice to the petstore, I'll send the old breeders, and restart all my colonies, rather than be completely at a loss... as I am now. Normally I have 26 small bins of mice (1.4) and 6 large bins of mice (1.9), and usually I have 500 pinkies/fuzzies/hoppers... at the moment I have 20 small bins, 4 large bins, and 15 pinkies and 15 hoppers..... not to mention 60 eggs due to hatch in a month and 30 hungry snakes besides! (YIKES!) I've learned my lesson very strongly....

April 1st and August 15th is time to replace the colonies. They get a longer span in the winter because fewer snakes are eating, and they don't have to contend with Arizona HEAT. The summer mice are always much more strongly stressed, due to the extreme heat (they have their own AC even!)

Luckily for me my RAT colonies are newer, and so the rats are pumping out babies like nobodies business, keeping all my snakes fed. If I can get my mouse colonies up to production of 60 pinkies a week by the 3rd week of July I'll be VERY happy! Actually I'm hoping to increase the number of mouse colonies with the rebuild of my mouse rack, from two racks with the before mentioned 20 small on one rack, and 6 large/6 small on the other rack, to ditching the large rack entirely, and converting the 20 small to a 36 small with no increase in space used.
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~Sasheena