Reptile & Amphibian Forums

From the Bell Line....

Very Blue (Opaque)in this pic.......

Super Feeder and Musker this one is........

One of the females I acquired from Len.

Please explain.

Sean, I will leave that for Len to explain on both questions you have raised here as thats where both these snakes questioned originated from. I could always have made mistakes with my notes as I did purchase a dozen blotched kings last season from several different people.

If there is confusion with my use of symantics as in "Krysko Line" versus a pair of his patternless adult breeders that produced this individual you probably know better than I. For sake of brevity I said "Krysko Patternless Line" in reference to his stock, as he does sell hatchlings at shows as "Patternless Blotched Kingsnakes", in an attempt to differentiate this particular picture (as in heading) from the others I posted previously in this thread.. I see my choice of words has accompolished anything but that so better for Len to clarify for me exactly what I purchased from him. This way I can better relay what Len say's to others as well as update my notes.

Best Regards, Richard Hebron

So Len has a pair of patternless adults he breeds? I don't remember seeing those at his place. I'll have to ask him about those. Either way, that snake you posted a pic of obviously is not patternless and I think using that word to describe that snake in any way is inaccurate unless you simply state something like "from patternless adults". "Patternless Line" will confuse the heck out of people especially with the pic you posted. And I think there's already enough confusion with this population of kings to begin with.

Sean, the 3 of the 4 females I have from Len were purchased as patternless. Since I am so new to Blotched Kings please feel free to correct me in explaining exactly what a patternless blotched king is. I have already e-mailed Len for better detail of what I actually purchased and you can better debate all this with him. You seem to be on a constant attack here to discredit me or him in some way openly. I have said earlier I would e-mail Len for his explanation of what I purchased from him. I have been trying my best to to clarify all this stuff for others but your persistence and tone is unbecoming in my opinion.

As I stated earlier I will make any corrections needed in what I stated if contradictory to what Len answers back with.

I'll leave it at that as It has become clearly obvious to me there is more to your agenda then this issue of how I termed blocthed kings you are using to hide behind. I have no problem with being corrected as I am only human and have been prone to mistakes before but I believe you are starting to go to far. I will no longer take any of your responses here seriously. Please feel free to contact me privately or in person if you feel the ned to discuss then any further as I do not think this is the place for it.

Best Regards, Rich Hebron

Some start out patternless... some are striped... some start out blotched and lighten up to look patternless. Len told me that the ones he had that lighten up to look patternless start out with patternless bellies. These are probably the snakes you have. Why don't you check their bellies or post a pic of them or something... I'm kinda curious.

the previous patternless blotched kingsnake female I posted a pic of earlier in this thread that I acquired from Len Krysko last season. I as well was told the same thing about patternless blotched kingsnakes not always being patternless as hatchlings by several breeders. I though have not raised one to adulthood to find out and was waiting for Len to respond. Figured why argue such stuff when an expert with first hand experience dealing with blotched kingsnakes for a number of years can clarify it for me.

All three of the patternless females I acquired from Len exhibit the same yellow belly. Although not as easy to get a pic of when everyone else here is sleeping away leaving me to try to keep the snake still enough to show it all alone...Some of my choice language changed that......hahahha

my Gulf Coast female pic posted earlier exhibiting a pretty much patternless black belly. When not blue she is actually the one everyone goes "WOW" about when seen in the flesh. She does stand out..

My striped female has a patternless belly too. I'm sure she'll lighten up considerably as she ages eventually looking patternless but fact is she's striped. I don't think you can base it on belly pattern alone.

The Belly pattern is what that light coloration seems to correlate with, though it may not hold true for every line of goini. If you talk to Len, he'll tell you the same. What he breeds as "patternless" are really normally patterned animals that lighten up to become "patternless".

exactly that. Two other breeders have also stated this to me as well. Len's line of patternless blotched (AKA Goini or Apalachicola depending on who you speak with as it is still ALL in one's individual interpretation since nothing as been universally accepted yet and may never be) kings can be just that. Actually was mentioned to me as well that most patternless look much better regardless as adults than hatchlings since they all typically lighten considerably. Obvious since most kings from Florida do just that anyway. One breeder say's "all their best patternless adults started out rathar noticeably aberrant at hatching". Nick, I recall you having thoughts on this as well. Some agree yet they did not know if they had any pics going back that far to show me. I wanted to post them here but follow my new thread for info. on updated pics (as the group I have matures) being posted in the future.

Since I have never raised to maturity or bred any of these kings (although working with these kings are new to me I have been working with breeding herps for over 30 years) I felt it better to verify all this info. prior before stating what I recalled from Daytona chats last season. It became clear to me some with much less experience tend to be very critical and can confuse the issue. Still exhibiting respect giving the benefit of the doubt I went back to MANY sources, thinking in their crude and very disrespectful approach to my posts there could be some truth to what they say. Much better for us all to get the facts right from the people with the experience of raising and breeding these kings as listening to brash arrogance should not be what this hobby is about.

If any questions on this and would like to discuss more feel free to contact me thru e-mail or phone 904-233-1973.

Best Regards, Rich Hebron

Sean, the 3 of the 4 females I have from Len were purchased as patternless. Since I am so new to Blotched Kings please feel free to correct me in explaining exactly what a patternless blotched king is.

A true patternless king is one that has no pattern whatsoever. They have no blotches, no stripes, no partial stripes, etc. Some of these kings are born with blotches and they lighten considerably as they age eventually looking like a patternless specimen. People call these patternless when in fact they truly are not. The name Blotched refers to those blotched specimens but people started using it as a common name calling everything the same thing. A striped specimen obiously is not blotched but since the common name has been around for quite some time, some people still call it that. That's why I said there is a lot of confusion with this particular population of getula.

You seem to be on a constant attack here to discredit me or him in some way openly. I have said earlier I would e-mail Len for his explanation of what I purchased from him. I have been trying my best to to clarify all this stuff for others but your persistence and tone is unbecoming in my opinion.

Not sure where I attacked you. I was simply trying to give some correct info that I thought you and anyone else might find useful. When I started doing research on these kings, I wanted to find out as much as I possibly could and only wanted to share that. I'm not trying to discredit either one of you and I apologize if it came across that way. But I feel like I should chime in when I see something that might need to be corrected.

I'll leave it at that as It has become clearly obvious to me there is more to your agenda then this issue of how I termed blocthed kings you are using to hide behind. I have no problem with being corrected as I am only human and have been prone to mistakes before but I believe you are starting to go to far. I will no longer take any of your responses here seriously.

My only agenda is to understand these kings better and hopefully others will do the same. I'm not sure how I'm taking this too far but I felt like this forum was a place for everyone to exchange information and learn from it. When incorrect info is put on here, I expect others to correct it and I try to do the same so other people will understand. Take any of my responses as you will. I'm still trying to learn as much as I can and appreciate anything I can learn on here.

n/p