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Surfing Around

Jcherry Jun 09, 2004 03:30 PM

Today I wa sjust browsing around some of my favorite sites on the web and ended up at Dave And Tracy Barker's VPI python page and ran acrossan article I found very interesting. It is basically about what should make an "expert" in our hobby. I found it interesting and thought I might share it with everyone. See what you think and I wouldlove to hear some feedback.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/TheMeasureOfExperience/TheMeasureOfExperience.htm
Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

Replies (11)

chaoscat Jun 09, 2004 06:37 PM

>>Today I wa sjust browsing around some of my favorite sites on the web and ended up at Dave And Tracy Barker's VPI python page and ran acrossan article I found very interesting. It is basically about what should make an "expert" in our hobby. I found it interesting and thought I might share it with everyone. See what you think and I wouldlove to hear some feedback.
>>
>>John Cherry
>>Cherryville Farms
>>
>>http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/TheMeasureOfExperience/TheMeasureOfExperience.htm
>>Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

John,

Thank you for posting that link. It is a very good article, and one that many people should read. It would be nice if people were able to document things they have learned more often, but unfortunately there are times when documentation just isn't possible. Plus, not everyone has the same experiences and what is right for one person might not be right for someone else.

The other question would be, is anyone really an expert? With so much new knowledge coming into play, I don't think anyone is truly an expert. That's just my humble opinion, however.

-cat
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

jcherry Jun 09, 2004 07:51 PM

You bring up a very good point which I have been cogniscent of for a while. One of my childhood hero's was Raymonf L. Ditmars. I read his books, listened to several talks he gave and basically idolized him. Now days in retrospect even though he was one of the most experienced reptile people of his day. His wisdom about many things have been proven to be wrong. I do believe though that he was a great man and was what I consider to be a true expert of his time.

I think the thing I came away from Tracy and Dave's article was that as with many things we sometime have a tendency to forget the lessons of yesterday, while still keeping our minds open to new and exciting lessons learned today. Additionally I thought it was interesting the observation about the three snake year keeper expounding about breeding whatever, while a long term breeder with a lot to share in the same room was ignored because he was not as flashly or vocal. I myself have seen this happen many times at expo's around the country.

On a closing note, I think that the term "expert" should be replaced with "experienced". I do believe we all need to try and glean as much as we can from the more "experienced" keepers around this hobby and continue to try and keep an open mind about new approachs and techniques that may arise. Probally the best thing about todays hobby is the sharing of information thru mediums such as this forum. It is indeed the best thing that has happened to this hobby since I became part of it.

John Cherry
Cherryvile Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

chaoscat Jun 09, 2004 10:36 PM

>>On a closing note, I think that the term "expert" should be replaced with "experienced". I do believe we all need to try and glean as much as we can from the more "experienced" keepers around this hobby and continue to try and keep an open mind about new approachs and techniques that may arise. Probally the best thing about todays hobby is the sharing of information thru mediums such as this forum. It is indeed the best thing that has happened to this hobby since I became part of it.
>>

Exactly. Experienced is much better than expert, with all the things out there that are still unknown. Many scientific theories that were the norm have been proven wrong.

I agree on the sharing of information. Unfortunately I have experienced the lack of information sharing many a time, by people who brag that they know about this or that, but then refuse to go into detail. It is a bit frustrating. I think they live in fear of someone "stealing" their information, which does happen, but they should still share it anyways, just a little more carefully. This can be in the form of copyright-such as a book, or an article.

-cat
-----
My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

nz Jun 10, 2004 12:11 AM

John, that Bull is gorgeous! Do you still have him? Is he hypo or a different morph? Do you have any background info? Thanks.

jcherry Jun 10, 2004 12:16 AM

That is a kansas bull that was actually owned by Don Soderburg which I lost in the accident last year, but we have some growing up from the same area and with very similar coloration.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

birddog5151 Jun 09, 2004 07:55 PM

I have often wondered if I would still be interested in the snakes and lizards if my dad had been an engineer instead of a junior high science teacher. Growing up in the 50s and 60s. Going to grandpa and grandmas farm lookng for bullsnakes, hognose, horned toads, catching kangaroo rats, tiger salamanders, bullfrogs, etc. Kids were always bringing dad their catch of the day...most got released, some were "pickled" in formaldehyde for future students to study. We even had a 2 foot caimen that lived in the bathtub. Mom was very tolerant.
Even today, Dad is still my "resident expert."

I began keeping reptiles when my children were young. Hearing them laugh when dad got bit by the racer. Who caught who. The black ratsnake found in the haybarn that would probably eaten from my hand had I not been chicken holding the mouse. There was a lot of information from the petshops, mostly wrong, and trial and error prevailed.

Don Soderberg, when he was in Wichita was the "expert" I came to know and trust. His advise always got me on the right track. He was patient and allowed me to trade up from time to time. Now there are two pet stores in the Wichita that have ties to Don and they are very good. I trust them and shop there.

The internet Kingsnake forums have allowed me to ask questions, answer questions, get advise. What a great source. I regularly "surf" the Tegu and the Pine, Bull, Gopher snake forums. I learn from you all daily, whether it is a new way to thaw mice, build tanks, or one of the many other questions that get answered.

Back to the concept of experts. I'm not sure about the concept of "snake years." Is the keeper of one or two snakes for 15 years any less of a expert than the keeper that goes out and buys 30 snakes and keeps them for a year? The keeper with two will know lots more about the lifecycle of his/her snakes. The keeper with 30 will know more about how to keep many snakes.

This long enough. Thanks for letting me share. And thank you for being my "experts."

Mike B

jcherry Jun 09, 2004 08:12 PM

Great reply! As far as Don is concerned, we finally got him down here to Texas and he is one of my bet friends in this hobby. When it comes to genetics and cornsnakes there is no one better. But if you will don't tell him we are all talikng so good about him, tammy will not be able to put up with him LOL.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

epidemic Jun 10, 2004 12:06 PM

You just made me realize how old I am! Time to begin a forum for Retro-Herpers on here, for those who have been with the hobby at least 30 or more years!

jcherry Jun 10, 2004 01:57 PM

LOL Join the crowd there are a lot of us long in the tooth retro's still around. Most of us tend to be a little seclusive. It all goes back to the old days when people thought we were wierd. Its about like that country song with a slight change " We were herpers, when herpers weren't cool". Oh well I guess some things get better with age, at least we probally smell better anyway.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

joeysgreen Jun 10, 2004 10:04 PM

I enjoyed this article a lot. The method of "snake years" does have some inconsistencies as previously mentioned but all in all I think it could be a basis for organization withen our hobby. Nearly every other animal related hobby has national standards and guidelines and we are still divided by the laws of each county and the opinions of every person under the sun. Such a system may just add the prestige factor as seen in falconry. Now the question is how to implement such a system. Does the system come first or does a national association come first?

As with everything there are wrinkles to iron out. Should one snake year be specified as the keeping of one snake for one year with opposition to keeping a snake until it dies or is sold and replaced right away? While working for a huge importer/exporter will grant you lots of experience I doubt it would equal a measurement of equal #'s in snake years.
Also the division of snake years, turtle years ect is detrimental to measuring the experience of a keeper who keeps a variety. Since much experience is with actual maintianing of different environments I may suggest a "herptile year" with specializations ect.

Whether it takes or not, this article opens the eyes of whomever may read it.

rttlrvenom Jun 12, 2004 12:39 PM

np
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