Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a captive bred and born rhino viper I have

NOTE: please do not freehandle you snakes! Venomous, venomoid, or whatever it is not a smart thing to do! I don't reccomend this to anyone! I am an idioit, and I understand the risks involved in free handling a snake like this! So please do not email me about it...I am well aware of the venom a rhino packs!

This photo is just for educational purposes! Enjoy!

-Steve Clark
TurtsAndTorts@tmail.com

What educational purpose is that? That no matter how much press we get, no matter how many bites there are in the news, no matter how many dealers sell to untrained people that there is always an idiot that doesn't care? That's about the only thing I can see educational about that pic, some moron who cares nothing about the hobby, REGARDLESS of how much you know about the venom of rhino vipers.
Do me a favor, post that pic in the venomous forum, with all the bad press lately, I'd love to see the responses, especially considering you're a dealer as well

This snake has undergone the venomoid procedure. Both of its venom ducts have been removed, while the glands are still intact. This snake is being used in research to test the theories of regeneration of the venom ducts if properly removed. The snake is doing well (even though some wouldn't believe so just as its a venomoid). It is feeding on frozen and thawed fuzzy mice now, and is looking great! I am also keepiing a venomous rhino from the same clutch as a control. They are both doing very, very well. I would like to come up with some sort of evidence to aid in an educated oppinion. I am not saying I support hack jobs. This was a professional who did the procedure for me. One of a few individuals in the country with a degree!

Take Care,
Steve Clark
TurtsAndTorts

I wasn't aware that it was safe for a snake that young to undergo a venomductectomy. The vet we use, and not that one vet's word is gospel, refuses to perform the procedure on any snake that isnt at least a subadult. Maybe the snake is a hack, and atrophied glands is the end result. Well, I guess we get what we get. Try not to get yourself killed.

creep

that picture just looks photoshopped to me

I see absolutely NOTHING educational about this picture; quite the opposite...to me, it is just irresponsible keeping at its best. FRom the angle of the pic, it looks like a venomoid with the face not looking nearly as "plump" as a healthy rhino should look. I am a curator of a very successful wildlife facility that focuses on education and research and includes many venomous including rhinos that are used in various education programs and exhibits.....to free handle a venomous snake like this is truly the most degrading act towards this snake that someone can show....but as you said, you are stupid - using your own words - and i just hope that this stupidity doesn't end up killing you someday (our hobby can't afford another irresponsible keeper....and pics like this that anyone can print off their computers just continues the certain demise of our hobby...thanks!). Rob Carmichael, Curator of the Wildlife Discovery Center, IL

I appologize that I didn't mention it is a venomoid. Also, the pic is not a good one...the snake does not have a sunken head at all, as the venom glands are still intact. I've read so much recently about venomous keepers being arrogant, ignorant, and downright retartd and getting tagged it is sick. I wonder how much longer we have until venomous snakes come under attack again....sometimes I feel the law is justified, but maybe a permit is needed for everyone...I mean just a $50 dollar application fee would deter idiots from owning a hot. I don't know how it would be regulated, and I hate to pay more money for something that costs me nothing now, but it is a small price to pay for our hobby.

-Steve Clark

a $50 permit fee isn't going to deter people from keeping hots, just look at the amount of people who keep them now illegally. In NY, from what I've heard there are only about 80 people who have their VRI. I'm assuming there are more than that keeping hots. I knew a guy who had an egyptian cobra, a few diamondbacks, a gator, and a caimen, amongst other things. He had a permit for none of them. The permit fee for a VRI is zero. It seems as though it is too much trouble for certain people. We need stricter permit systems, and states that support the use of AV banks. It's the only way.

Good point...here in NJ a permit is not that hard to obtain...oddly enough, I know a lot of people who keep hots illegally in NJ, as they say by applying for a permit they are hurting themselves, as even if they are declined and then break the law the heat will be on them, and they are more likely to be asked to show off their animals to the agents. One who has no papers, and keeps it quiet is often never found out unless they are envenomated. Kinda ironic, kinda idiotic...

-Steve Clark

hey steve-do you know of a way to get a venomous snake permit in N.J.-if so please email me the info-I have been keeping hots for 10 years in pa and i am tired of driving from s.j. to pa 2xs a week to care for my hots. apexpredator111@hotmail.com

I'm an avid snake keeper right now keeping only nonvenomous species. but in my early days i did (illegally i admit) from lack of knowledge keep a wild caught baby cottonmouth. i did my homework on he animal and learned just about everything i needed to keep it. I mean from tank regulations to the food it needed and venom toxicity. but now that im a more determined herper and not as ignorant i would like to obtain a permit to keep hots. i feel that im suited to take this on and would like to know the procedure. Do i just have to call the FWS or what? I'm really interested and any help would be greatly welcomed. well thanx for your time

Chris Stevens

I am glad to see you are interested by venomous, but I do have to ask you prior to obtaining a hot to check into all of the care requirements, etc, prior to making your decision! Your life, and the life of your animal (not to mention others) depends on your good judgement and knowledge!

First off, veomous laws varry by state, county, and even borough. First off check with USFWS, and make sure anything you want isn't protected or anything like that. Then contact the DNR (dept of natural resources), and they will help guide you. Next call your local and borough government. Best of luck with everything there, legalities are often not easy to abide by, but well worth it when you look at the penalities for not doing so!

Best of luck,
Steve Clark

It is illegal to own venomous in the state of NJ no matter what county you live in..... A venomous permit is not hard to get in NJ???? Thats funny..... They do not give them out to private keepers at all.....

And if that is a captive born rhino, why can you see its spine in the neck area???? It looks like a farmed import to me.... Also its head should be much wider.... Shrinking heads are also due to dehydration.....

He was very dehydrated in the photo. That was right after I got him...shipping was delayed and he sat at a "hub" in another airport overnight. She looks flawless now, and is just a little skittish...typical rhino traits!

As far as NJ permits...they issue them in certain cases. Personally I would say that you would like to do a small scale commercial breeding project, or even a research program. You can also claim that you are using them for presentations, and then just show it a little! The permit is not hard to get, but it may take a few attempts. As far as county laws...most have none seeing that the state has banned venomous reptile keeping. In Pa on the other hand the state doesn't care, but local counties may ban their keeping. Just minor technicalities you must explore prior to owning a venomous animal.

-Steve Clark

While rhinos and other bitis can dehydrate rather fast, over night in a hub will not dry it out to that point.... I can spot a dehydrated farmed import a mile away..... I have been dealing with bitis for too long..... I am also willing to bet that you do not have a VRL from the state of NJ.... Private keepers CANNOT get them..... There is not one hot keeper in NJ that is legal....

its dead by now

Dead, no...just pounded a frozen and thawed hopper off of 18 inch hemostats. This little girl was the "runt of the litter", and by far the smallest at birth. Now she has gained weight and is feeding a lot for a rhino! I was pleased to look into her enclosure and find that she shed her skin the other day...she is one of the best looking rhinos I have seen! Very nice looking little snake. She flexes her fangs on occasion (normal bitis behavior), and for such a little snake those are some serious fangs!

In any event she is far from dead. The mice she is fed are on the otherhand, "dead as dirt".

Take Care,
Steve Clark