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I think this is one of the most frequently asked questions and also one of the hardest to answer! I think a Jungle Boa is much more than just aberrancies...

Here are a couple of photos of my Jungle Boa that I took today. He's getting BIG! He's about 3 feet long now and weighs around 450 grams or so. I don't know what it is about him but I just think he's got a very unique look to him overall...the way his saddles are, the distinct yet subtle difference in body coloration, the way his sides are so speckled but his dorsal is so clean...he's also got a lot of nice pink coloration coming in on his head and on his body

Thanks for looking!
Celia

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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

I believe in order for a jungle boa to be a true jungle boa it would have to have originated from the true swedish line please if im wrong someone correct me anyway that is one awesome snake ceal good luck with him
john peraza

you got me seeing red now. lol so i thought i would show some too. this is not a jungle or anything fancy. just a het for anery that i really like.
red het female

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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

REAL NICE ISNT IT AMAZING HOW THOSE HET ANERIES ARE ALWAYS SO DAMN COLORFUL?
JOHN PERAZA

i ran in there a few minutes ago to snap some shots and low and behold she was just starting to shed off her old skin. i might take step by step pics or just wait till shes done.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

LETS SEE THE WHOLE BOA THOSE PIX OF THEM WRAPED AROUND YOUR HAND JUST DO THEM NO JUSTICE
JOHN PERAZA

thats what i mean. i always get the wild hair to take pics at night. i have crappy lighting here and just cant get it right. i did get a few good ones tonight though. i will have to make the extra effort to get some during the day sorry. i do want to show them off in all their glory dont get me wrong. the albino is the one i have the most trouble getting good pics of. i want to get some good ones of him, he is sweet.

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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

My guy originated from the Swedish line...I got him from Jeremy Stone from a joint breeding he did with Mike Weitzman. He just gets better and better every time he sheds. He also changes between light and dark a lot. I caught him on a "light" day today.

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

I NEVER DOUBTED FOR 1 SECOND THAT THAT WAS A TRUE JUNGLE THEY TEND TO HAVE A SPECIAL LOOK TO THEM THAT ALL THE PHONEIES FLOATING AROUND JUST DONT HAVE I CANT EXPLAIN IT BUT IM SURE EVERYONE WHO KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT GOOD LUCK WITH HIM
JOHN PERAZA

that is a very nice snake.
The one thing I do not agree with is that alot of people emailed me saying there is no way jungle cane come out of colombia since they all come from sweden, well my response is boas naturally occur in sweden?
There is a possibility that some of the abberant/junglish ones I sold are in fact jungles in a sense if they prove out andothers are not. I sell them based on looks not genetics.
I am holding back three siblings from a junglish saddled female that threw the three and the rest slugs and two or three stills. One of the stills looked like the three live ones.
I am keeping two of them( its 2.1, keeping a pair) and should prove it out in a few years as they are siblings and if there is a super in there, we know they are jungles. So what I am saying is in general all boas come for colombia. Saying jungles are only swedish and all others are not is like saying an albino that came in yesterday from colombia as a farmed baby is not an albino.

This is a pic of the female I am keeping.

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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

okay...it is possible that there are genetic Jungle Boas in the wild. Once again, almost anything is possible.

HOWEVER here is where I think you run into a problem...you said that "I sell them based on looks not genetics". I see this statement as problematic in the sense of actually getting the money you ask for them. They are your snakes and you have every right to ask whatever you want for them. But getting people to pay that price is another thing. Most people are wary of investing that amount of money on something that isn't proven genetic but is being represented as genetic. Of course you aren't asking as much as the Swedish line of Jungle Boas but you are still asking much more for it than a regular abberrant boa.

No, boas do not naturally occur in Sweden BUT the PROVEN line of GENETIC Jungle Boas does originate from Sweden. Does this mean that your Boa is not a Jungle...NO. But prove it out. Why not keep all three of your babies and breed them. Breed a pair together and breed the other male to a normal female. See what results you get. Your pair bred together should produce Super Jungles for you if they are truly from the Genetic Jungle line. Why not prove your line out beyond a shadow of a doubt? Yes, it takes years of work but once again, in my opinion, it is WORTH it.

An Albino Boa can not be compared to a Jungle Boa because you can tell an Albino from a normal visually. You might not necessarily be able to tell a Jungle Boa from a normal Boa visually. Lots of genetic Jungle Boas just look like really nice normals. Basically, I don't think you can get the goods without doing the work...there's no short cut.

If you can get the money you ask for them, the more power to you. Once again, they are your animals and you are entitled to ask whatever you want for them. The female you have is very nice looking and she may very well be a genetic Jungle. I hope you keep working with them and do prove out your line!

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

Actually the only existing line of jungle came from sweden, naturally before it was proven genetic they came from south america. but the proven line was done so in sweden hence the swedish line .What people tend to forget is with these farmed babies alot of them are exposed to temp fluxes while still unborn. This tends to result in abarencies. Dose this make pretty looking jungle looking babies genetic?I would say no! While it is very posible that some that get imported into this country every year are genetic, Im sure that it is a very small number compared to they amount that come in. The same can be said of surinames and guyanas. I've seen big gravid females arrive and drop babies and a good percentage of those babies haveing abarencies, but once again the chances of those babies being genetic are probably comparible to hitting you state lotto. Oh and one thing that i always hear that bugs the hell outta me,What the hell is " looks genetic" how the hell can something look genetic? Can someone explain this to me?
john peraza

Everything can "look" genetic but necesarily mean it is.
For example once again compare to ball pythons.
Cinnamons when first arrived might have been said to look genetic, mojaves could have "looked" genetic, then there all the others that "looked" genetic and aren't.
Anything can look genetic. Its a matter of if it is, by process of proving it out.
I have tons of ball pythons that have the craziest patterns but also have traits of genetic animals that "look " like they could be genetic. When I say this I do not say it WILL be or IS.
It is again to the possibilities.
Its always a gamble. I have noticed more and more that the big well known breeders take these gambles far more seriously than most. They fork out thebig bucks for unusual animals that may or may not be genetic.
The platinum looked genetic, what if it wasnt???????
All these morphs, especially the striped, were proven, and that is what we all have to do that think we have jungle looking boas, see if it is genetic. I can guarantee before the striped was proven that is someone posted a pic of it, more than 90% of the people would say no golden striped ball pythons are genetic.

Celia, I agree completely.
I also agree that the ones who spend big money on unproven animals are the ones we all know today.
I do not expect to sell a male to someone like me and you. I expect to sell it to a gambler who has gambled before and it has paid off 90% of the time.
THe price ont he snake is what it is worth to me. Every week that goes by it is worth more and more to me that if it doesnt have a buyer, im keeping it.
Originally when I mentioned the looks over poss genetics was in reference to all the junglsih/abberant boas I have sold for 150.00-600.00
Not the three I mentioned I believe are possibly a new line of jungle.
If I do not get my asking price, ill just keep him.
It doesnt bother me.

But keep in mind and notice that all the big players have invested hundreds of thousands in any unproven morphs of boas and ball pythons. If it goes there gamble paid off big time.

I sold a 2.3 group of what I called Anery pearlescent Boas (may be axanthic)to a well known breeder. All are siblings except the two males are normals with only the side striping.
I sold them for a measly 2,000.00 and a promise of if it is genetic than 1.1 babies back.
I know for a fact that if it is proven genetic and since they are so different that the breeder will ask probably 5k-10k each and WILL sell them.
This breeder took a gamble, and if it pays off great, if not oh well, it has happened and will happen again.

It is all about gambles. Alot of us wont pay big money for something that wasnt already proven. Hell the Motley Boas sat at Strictly Reptiles for 2-3 YEARS before ron bought them. No one thought it was genetic and didnt see potential of them. But once someone wel known got them, etc, they sky rocketed in price, and are still so to this day.

Mike
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

a lot of "big breeders" spend lots and lots of money on new projects and it is definitely a gamble. It's a gamble whether or not the animal will do well for you as much as it is a gamble on whether or not it'll prove out to be genetic. Case in point, the Ball Python market.

However, I think that most of these gambles that the "big breeders" invest in are new projects (of course there are exceptions). I just don't see a "big breeder" investing in the possibility of an abberrant boa proving out to be a genetic Jungle Boa because they could easily just invest in the proven Swedish line and it wouldn't be a gamble at all.

That's why I did what I did and took the dive and invested in something that I knew for a fact to be genetic. And if for some reason mine proves out not to be, I know I can go to Jeremy about it and he would be good for it. To me, it's just better to invest the whole amount to have a sure thing. No cutting corners...but of course, that's just me.

I could see "big breeders" gambling on something like your Anery Pearlescent or possibly Axanthic Boas because if they really are Axanthics, then that would be absolutely totally different than anything that's available at the current time.

I think it would be more likely for someone looking to get into Jungles that is on a somewhat limited budget to invest in your animals as opposed to a "big breeder" taking that chance. I hope what I said there makes sense...LOL.

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

It may very well be the case but not from where Iget my boas from.
Myboas come from a CITIES approved farm of which I know the owner personally(he lives down the street). His setups are just like they are here. Except the only difference is the animals are exposed to the colombian temperatures. The boas are BRED on this farm and not gravid collected females so the chances of temp fluxes because of the capture, stress, etc, is reduced even further since these snakes are not caught. They are kept all year long, go through all the colombian temps(which is natural temps) and are bred by placing several malaes per cage to ensure they take.
The days of cheating CITIES by capturing gravid snakes and rplacing them in these famrs are pretty much over. When I go there next season I will take pics of the set ups, etc for you guys.
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

That these boas are bred under controlled conditions right?? If thats the case then with these so called jungle boas of yours shouldnt the parents look diferent than all the other boas? Even if there is sevral males in the mix then at least one of the animals must look different right? Seeing as the jungle trait is co dom then at least one of the parents must be a visual for the trait right? so explain this to us . Also temp fluxes happen under controled conditions, in the best of setups.
Please understand noone is attacking you personally i love your abarent animals but thats exactly what they are abarent
john peraza

If you notice onthe post above, the original one, that these three animals came from a female that has junglish saddles. I asked what she looked like and that is what was told to me, that she had saddles like the babies.
They have no clue to what male was the father though but I am leaning towards the female as carrying some sort of gene. Like I said I am going to prove these two out maybe the three.
I know there are temp fluxes even in the best set ups that can cause this but do realize these are in a buliding exposed to natural temps so once again the possibility of none being genetic gets slimer.
I understand your points and agree to alot of them, I only disagree when someone emails me and says that jungles only come from sweden lines. In other owrds people say there is no chance of others being jungles. Different lines possibly, same trait, more than likely.
I am just going to raise them up and see what happens.

Also I do not advertise my other boas as GENETIC JUGNLES, or even JUNGLES, I advertise them as Jugnlish/Abberants which is exactly what that reads, Jugnlish looking, Abberant Boas.

Alot of these abberancies are probably genetic as well but only time will tell and I have a feeling if some do prove out the abberancies it will be random as in stripers, you get some crazy looking ones, and some not so crazy ones. Its a matter of time.

Please understand I acknowledge that the swedish line is the only proven line that is in the publics eye. We do not all know what others have up their sleeves though. This year I may prove a jungle looking male out if all goes well, that I recieved three years ago/ It is very similar to the new ones I want to hold back.

Below is a pic of the Anery or Axanthic Pearlescents as I call them. This would make a killer snow/blizzard?

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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

lol, sorry about the typos, I was typing to fast and didnt check for errors.
Anyways here is another pic for thought. I should have kept this one.

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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

>>I think this is one of the most frequently asked questions and also one of the hardest to answer! I think a Jungle Boa is much more than just aberrancies...
>>
>>Here are a couple of photos of my Jungle Boa that I took today. He's getting BIG! He's about 3 feet long now and weighs around 450 grams or so. I don't know what it is about him but I just think he's got a very unique look to him overall...the way his saddles are, the distinct yet subtle difference in body coloration, the way his sides are so speckled but his dorsal is so clean...he's also got a lot of nice pink coloration coming in on his head and on his body
>>
>>Thanks for looking!
>>Celia
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Celia Chien
>>
>> Celia Chien Photography
>> My Snakes
>>
>>www.ExoticsByNature.com
>>www.BallPythonMorphs.com
>>www.CornsnakeMorphs.com
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

Ok now!Now I mad!First off beautiful boa you have their!Smiles!I posted a few questions earlier in the forum asking if my female was possibly jungle,an tried my best too explain what she looked like!An I thought I got my answer!Like I said THOUGHT!Now I see this beautiful boa on here an it is a jungle an my female saddles are the same blocked saddles with holes,except my female has a long strype that starts also blocked off with the hole!An because someone possibly majorly screwed up in the sale of this animal its not possible that mines not a jungle I am very,very confused guys!I do understand that it was hard to answer my questions with out seeing her but she looks like that but with a strype!Thanks for the help guys!Charles[HYPOBOA]

hello charles
if your animal wasnt sold to you as a jungle ,or if you did not pay $3000 or better for it then it probably is just a really nice aberant boa. jungles originate from a blood line that was imported out of sweden. i doubt that who ever you got that boa from would have acidentally sold you a jungle for what was it you said you paid for it? $350? unless your animal originates from the swedish lines, then it isnt a true jungle. now if you breed it to a normal and produce 1/2 a litter of aberant animals, then take those aberant animals and breed them out further to other normal unrelated animals, and continue to produce half litters of aberant animals then you have proved out your own line of jungles. or you can even call them what you want but to just look at a animal and call it a jungle isnt the way it works. you have to put in the time and work to call it what you think it looks like hence the high prices. if not all you are doing is misrepresenting your animal just my honest opinon
john peraza

I would have to agree with John...

You might have a beautiful boa that is super aberrant that may look just like a Jungle or even better than some of the Jungles out there. Does this necessarily mean it's a Jungle Boa...no. Does this mean it isn't a Jungle Boa...no. The chances of you lucking out and picking up a Jungle for FAR less than $3000 are slim...but not impossible since very little is really impossible. Who knows...maybe you did happen to luck out...BUT (and this is a BIG but)...the only way to prove your boa out as a Jungle is to spend a few years breeding it out.

You need to prove out the bloodline before you try to sell it or any of its offspring as GENETIC Jungle Boas. Remember, there is much more to a Jungle Boa than only abberant patterns. And from what I've been told by others as well as what I've seen from photos, you can pick out Jungle Boas from normal Boas in a litter of slimy babies like you can Albinos from Normals. It is a very distinct difference yet ironically, it is hard to describe.

I believe there are three main things to look for in Jungles. First of all, pattern. The abberancies that people seem to think are the only markers. The cookie cutter shaped saddles and connected saddles. NOT necessarily blocky saddles...slight distinction here.

Second, the tail. Jungles tend to have elongated tail saddles with high contrast between the red saddles and the base body color.

And thirdly, body coloration in general. Jungles tend to be much more yellowish in body color than normal boas; even when they brown over as they get to be adults. They have a very yellowish-brown look to them.

Now if your snake has all these characteristics and you truly think it's a Jungle Boa...start doing the leg work! Breed him/her to a normal, completely unrelated, boa and see what you get. If you get a litter where several of the babies are abberrant...Great! BUT (there's that but again), you're not done there.

Take one of those abberrant babies you just produced and breed it back to your Jungle. Or breed two fo the abberrant babies together. What did you get from that breeding? You SHOULD get some SUPER Jungle Boas. If you did, then congrats, you've got a Genetic Jungle Boa from the Swedish line. Many people seem to forget about the SUPER Jungle Boas...maybe because there are so few of them.

It's a lot of work. In my opinion, it's all absolutely necessary if you want to call and market your animal as a Jungle Boa but you are unsure of the exact lineage of your animal. PROVE IT OUT! Prove it out beyond a doubt and nobody will doubt you! That's how the swedish line of Jungles came to be...it tooks years of work but look how much they are worth!

A lot of people think they've got something special. I don't blame them because we all love our animals and whether you've got a normal Colombian Boa or a Super Jungle Hypo Boa...you've got something SPECIAL! However, we need to warrant the prices we ask for our animals. You have to show people that you have a very good reason for pricing your animal the way you did...none of this "It LOOKS genetic" stuff.

The above are (mostly) just my opinons...take them how you may. I will now step off my soapbox and allow the next person in line to take my place LOL!

I hope some of this was helpful

Thanks,
Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

Thank you for the added information!ITS JUST i SEEN THE SADDLES ON CELIA'S Sorry can't type!lol!I thought for sure,you know!An mine is more of an orangish buckskin color than a yellowish color,but saddles look the same,An like you all said to take the time an breed her an prove her out!Well next september will be the time an only time will tell,She is definatley different than any of my other boa's!Their is a couple of local herpers here that want her every time they see her an I ask why an I get no answer!So I feel thats kinda odd too!But I love her the same abberent or not!Thanks Charles![Hypoboa]

KEEP that girl and breed her!! Who knows...she may very well be a Jungle. I'll be looking for baby photos later this year!

Good luck!

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

to mine? He is just beautiful, girl!!!
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Linda Hedgpeth
lindafh@frontiernet.net
Sierra Serpents

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!!"

he most certainly IS the sibling to yours! How are yours doing?? I bet they look fabulous too!

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

Celia, your male is really nice..
Linda, I would love to see your sibling to Celia's!!

These pics are very inspiring.. thanks for sharing.

Patick
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Patrick Metz
pato_quack@yahoo.com
(928) 525-1607

www.picturetrail.com/patoquack