Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have an 18" licorice stick black rat snake (or white sided black rat). I've been told to keep her in something small like a tupperware container...right now she's in a 29 gallon tank and seems to be enjoying it. I was wondering, what is this with everyone keeping their snakes in these tupperware containers/critter keepers? I mean yes, the snake can fit in there, but is the snake really happy in that? I mean I wouldn't be happy locked in my closet! and the respective sizes would be such that i would have more room in my closet than a snake in a tupperware/kritter keeper. Also when this snake is full grown what is a good size tank for her to be kept in? I was thinkin 55/75 or so, but i've been told the 29 will be fine for her life span. This seems extremly smal to me, I was just wondering what most people think on this issue.

Thanks,Chris
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

I certainly can't speak for every one (especially those with large collections) but for my purposes plastic boxes make sense. First, they are much lighter and thus easier to manipulate and maintain then glass. Second, I don't have to have an elaborate stand for them. In fact, four of the largest rubbermaid boxes (which I use for my adult colubrids) fit on an inexpensive utility shelving unit like you have at Home Depot. Third, the cost is fractional to that of similarly sized glass aquariums with screen tops.
Don Soderberg once described the American zoological standard for cage size requirements to me. Although I've forgotten the exact specs, the Rubbermaid #4483 about doubles the necessary size for even my largest adult snakes (bullsnakes).
Cheers!

>>I have an 18" licorice stick black rat snake (or white sided black rat). I've been told to keep her in something small like a tupperware container...right now she's in a 29 gallon tank and seems to be enjoying it. I was wondering, what is this with everyone keeping their snakes in these tupperware containers/critter keepers? I mean yes, the snake can fit in there, but is the snake really happy in that? I mean I wouldn't be happy locked in my closet! and the respective sizes would be such that i would have more room in my closet than a snake in a tupperware/kritter keeper. Also when this snake is full grown what is a good size tank for her to be kept in? I was thinkin 55/75 or so, but i've been told the 29 will be fine for her life span. This seems extremly smal to me, I was just wondering what most people think on this issue.

As Tempest points out....I can fit the tubs into a rack or shelves and handle even the largest by myself. (unlike the 50 breeder tanks that require two men and a boy to move to wash)I can afford them and usually the dimensions are better than a tank. My adult everglades male, my adult female black ratsnake are fine in their 90 qt. (448sq in footprint, 5376 cubic inches)The younger snakes are in 28qt.(336sq inch footprint, 2016 cubic inches)I am going by guess, but a 29 gal is like 288sq inches (12X24)footprint- the only add is double the height for the smaller tub. (for you I measured my 55, that the 6 salamanders live in....576sq inch footprint (narrow!) and 11520 cubic. Cost per square inch is fractional...especially when you go into the screen tops for tanks, and the replacing demolished glass when you ding it on a doorframe.
Forgetting the cost (fractional of a tank) and only looking at the advantages to the snake (in my twisted mind). They hold humidity and heat better than a tank. The translucent side offers some security. There are fewer rough edges. (I melt holes, not drilling, that can leave burrs). They are such cake to heft that I am WAY more likely to grab a dirty tub and take it to scrub completely than I am to lug a tank anywhere. Because they are cheap I can own a couple 'extra' and change out a dirty one for a clean in seconds. (a double advantage- everyone is happy)
Some of the supposed downsides of plastic tubs.....if you want to put a light on them you have to cut a hole and put in screening so it won't melt any plastic. I hate lamps as they burn all sorts of extra heat, they waste electricity and the bulbs blow. I have UTH that is years old.
They aren't 'pretty'. So all the other snakes are coming to my cellar window to laugh and point at the ugly snake homes......I knew that. My snakes can laugh and point back...they have free food, brought to them still warm.
As for 'happy' snakes....I don't think it is an emotion they are capable of. Their needs are met. They are safe. They have a whole lot more room than most people who have a snake in a tank on display in the livingroom and the snake is covering 3/4 of the tank floor, 'cause tanks are expensive and they are saving up to build something for the poor boa...that is shoehorned in there.
I am not trying to make this sound like I am making fun of you. I am a bit cynical, having worked in the pet trade too long. You are the exception. You want a lovely gymnasium for your snake then by all means do it. As long as it's basic needs are met and you are happy that is great. For some of us with mumble mumble more than one or two snakes the tubs make life incredibly easier and I don't think we are torturing our animals.
Anyone have the site for cage size recommendations? I have one for lab animals only. That in and of itself is scary. My feeders live in hotels compared.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

I totally agree! I've got 14 snakes currently and NONE of them are in glass tanks for all of the reasons you stated above. I've got a dozen glass tanks of various sizes in the attic (boy, that was a chore) and as far as I'm concerned they'll stay up there till I'm ready for a dozen fish filled tanks. Plastic tubs are lighter, break resistant, no square corners to make it difficult to clean, great for humidity loving snakes, and easy to heat with under tank heat, which I prefer. I keep my display snakes in Boaphiles or Moonstruck cages- again because they are relatively lightweight for the footprint of space they give the snake.
I have kept plenty of rat snakes in glass tanks over the years. I used to set up little terrariums with moss and drifwood, live plants, sunken naturalistic water sections- all that good stuff. All the plants- died (I had full spectrum lighting but the bulbs blew, broke or shorted out from the humidity), got a mite infestation and threw all that stuff out and switched back to paper for substrate. Easy to me means CLEAN. It was a real pain to sift through all that naturalistic substrate and keep it clean. I can clean 10 tubs in the amount of time it used to take to clean 1 55 gallon tank. With just one snake and a lot of attention, a glass tank can work. Once you get a few snakes though, tanks are a lot of unused space that are difficult to maintain.
Lora

I agree for multiple snakes those tubs seem very logical. I don't mean to accuse anybody of mistreating their snakes, I agree for owning many snakes that is a logical thing to do. My whole thing on this is I was under the impression that these people are keeping their snakes in miniature little things...like maybe 3 qt. tupperware containers, lol. Now for babies, just born, I dont see how that would really be that bad of an idea. But yeah, I mean I don't honestly see the point of keeping a hundred snakes (except if you're a breeder) if you dont have them in a conatiner where you can look at them and easily handle them all the time and where other people can come in and look at them, etc. I don't mean them to be a "decoration" because they're in a place where they are somewhat like that, but moreso where they can be handled easier, and recognize you a little more.

I had an Oscar (African Ciclid - Fish) who recognized me when I walked up to the tank. And being a fish he was never handled, but still got to know me by looking thru the tank. I've heard of some snakes getting to know their owners and actually show affection...specifically in the way of pressing their faces up against the owner? Is this commonly done?
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

I personally don't believe that snakes "show affection". I think affection is something that animals that care for their young might exhibit. After all, somthing has to keep them from killing them- not the most pleasant thought but pretty much true. I've been keeping snakes for 15 years, and that does not make me an expert of any sort, but it does mean that I've observed a lot of behaviour from various types of snakes. I've had some snakes that did everything they could to avoid being handled and others that didn't seem to mind so much. I don't think any of my snakes really enjoys me touching them, though some do become more active and explore when out of the cage (I'm just the warm thing they're sitting on). Most of my snakes do look at me and the conditioned response is pretty much "do you have my dinner?". If you're looking for affection- snakes aren't the pet to get it from. Stick with mammals or birds for that. Of course, people interpret things in a lot of different ways. Someone else might think when their snake is tasting their skin (with a tongue flick) that the snake is showing affection. I'm just glad I don't smell like a rat!
Lora