Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone and thanks again for all the help you've given me in preparation for the big day today! I brought home my new girl, the shy Golden Greek from the local pet store. I'm so glad I chose her, she's the one that just really stood out from day 1 despite the fact that she seemed so shy when the others were more active and would come right up to me. I've named her Sunshine for now, not sure if that will be her forever name or if I'll come up with a different one.

She started out shy, explored for a few minutes then buried herself under the hay. But she came out after a bit and started to explore! She found her water dish, and her basking spot, and pretty much walked all over looking at everthing. Whenever I moved she'd go back into her shell and took a while to come back out. I tried to hand feed her. The first time she just went in her shell and wouldn't come out. I put the food in front of her and she eventually came out and then ate it. I tried to hand feed again, she hid again, but she did come out and then ate the greens right from my hand, it was great!

After she explored inside, I took her out and she cruised all over the back yard. Now when I move she just does a short little duck back in, doesn't even go all the way, and comes right back out in about 1/2 second. And when I hold her she keeps her head and feet out. I think we are well on our way to a wonderful relationship.

Here are some pics...

Exploring her enclosure

Exploring the back yard...

Here is the top of her shell. I'm sorry I don't know the correct terminology here, but hopefully you'll understand what I'm saying. I don't know what the shell is supposed to look like to know if hers is ok or not. See how the centers of the separate areas are kinda pitted kind of near where the black spots are? You can see it best in the center top one. Is that ok? I love the white/black marks in between. Will she keep those?

I love that she doesn't hide when I hold her now! I also love the "butterfly" above her head!

Do you have to trim their nails? They are pretty long. The nails on her right foot look good, she has 4 of them and they go out straight...

The nails on her left foot are a little funky. She only has 3 and the center one curls forward...

Here is a side view of that foot, you can see better how the one nail curls forward. Will this be permanent? Or will it grow straight if I trim it?

I'm just so in love with her already! I can totally see how you could get hooked on Tortoises. Wish I had a bigger house! But for now I'm thrilled to just have her.

For her water I found a lazy susan at the store which looked perfect, it was shallow enough for her to climb in and out easily, and big enough she can fit all the way in if she wants. She did climb in and back out on her own already. She'll still get her soaks, I know this isn't enough, but I feel better she can get a drink or soak her tootsies when she wants...

It was so relaxing being outside with her.

I even found a 4 leaf clover while I was watching her explore! I took that as a very good sign. I didn't pick it, maybe she'll eat it on one of her outings...

Thank you for looking at my pics and for all the help with my questions this week!
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise arriving June 12th !!!
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

That is one of the nicest if not the nicest golden greek I've seen. (but then I've only seen about 100).
Somebody was also not very clear as to it's origin. That animal has been in captivity for a while and has some fantastic new growth. What is really interesting is the radiated pattern on the new growth. It's like the Egyptians have shown us. They are dark by nature and the environment seems to lighten them up.
That is a very healthy animal to boot. I'd still recommend a vet visit.
One last thing... be very careful adding a male. It would be a shame to loose such a very nice animal.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Very nice pictures and posting.
What kind of camera are you using?
Also, I'd lay odds that whoever owned her last fed her M.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

She arrived in the same shipment with 5 other smaller ones. I don't remember what company my pet store orders from, they don't do any direct importing themselves they buy from distributors who carry both CB and WC animals. They were not told if the Torts were WC or CB, but assumed WC. Some of the smaller ones had broken edges on their shells and some had indents, like old injuries, on their bellies. None of them looked like her, she really stood out.

She also didn't want anything to do with them. I doubt I'll ever know if she was a fresh import, or long term captive, or even CB. Since she was in with the ones that looked like they definitely had spent time in the wild, it's a good thing the store did give her Panacure. She came with a free vet visit so she'll be going in the next couple of weeks. Would have done so anyways, but still nice to have the visit free. I'll still pay for the stool check and any worming meds, that won't be covered. Since she seems more relaxed now than she did in the store, I'm not so sure she liked being in a group. I was going to buy her a friend in two weeks but I'm second guessing that. I might do so down the road if I find a nice healthy female (would still quarantine of course). But for now I think she will be just fine as a single chick.

My camera is a Nikon CoolPix 2500 (there are newer versions out now). Not an expensive camera. I was willing to pay more, but when I told the sales guy I did alot of closeup work with animals he said this is the one I wanted. Here is a link to some info on it Nikon CoolPix 2500

It works great on closeups for a small camera with no special lenses added on...

Sunshine says thank you for the complements!

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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

I think we are well on our way to a wonderful relationship.

me too! sounds like she's really warming up to you already.

See how the centers of the separate areas are kinda pitted kind of near where the black spots are?

yeah; those big scales that make up her shell are called scutes. the center part is what she was born with, and new growth radiates outward. i'm pretty sure that that slight pitted texture in the middle of her original scute is normal, as my redfoot has that exact same texture (see piccy).

Do you have to trim their nails? They are pretty long. The nails on her right foot look good, she has 4 of them and they go out straight... The nails on her left foot are a little funky. She only has 3 and the center one curls forward...

i don't know about tort manicures/pedicures (though i had an iguana once whose nails i could just cut with people nail clippers... i'd just wait til she was in a relaxed mood, and try not to take very much at a time so i'd not hit the vein inside). someone more experienced here, or your vet, could say. try letting her cruise around on your driveway; i do that with mine soetimes to help keep his from being sharp, since his are too tiny to think of cutting at this point.

Awwwww, what a little cutie pie you have! They are like exact opposites! yours is dark w/ light spots, mine is light with dark spots! Sunshine did try to go on the driveway during her explorations, but when I leaned over and put my hand on it, it was pretty hot. I was about to pick her up but she turned on her own and headed back into the yard. Luckily I have concrete and not black top. I'll bring a temp gun out next time and test it, if it's cool enough I'll let her out there. Her basking is around 95. It fluxuates a bit depending on the base room temp. So I figure if the concrete is 95 or below it will be safe? She's resting now after her long day. Earlier she was moving around under the hay, it's a pretty thick layer and she can go under it completely so she can hide anywhere in the enclosure. It was funny seeing the hay moving around. I never saw her, but knew where she was. She has an actual hide too so she can be out of the hay but still hidden. I can't wait till tomorrow to take her outside again! I look forward to seeing pics of your baby growing up! Oh, what is the purple thing?
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

Beautiful looking female Middle Eastern greek! She has a growth ring much like one of my males. My males would love to get to know her.

This wil p*** off Ed, but don't feed her any Mazuri. Lots and lots of weeds. Ours consume grape leaves, plantain, cactus, clover, mallow, and sedum mixed with Herpnutrition's Grassland Tortoise mix. You want slow, steady growth from a diet with a high fiber and high calcium to phosphorus ratio. The above items and mix will do the job beautifully. Ours have been eating that diet for over 3 years and look like ones seen on any good nature show.

Also, keep the ambient humidity below 50%. The hide area can be at 60-70%, but sustained humidity above 50% will bring on RNS. You don't want to go there...trust me. Watch for bubbles from the nose. If you see'em, get her to a vet ASAP.

Good luck and give her a chance to get acclimated (12-15 months) before you even consider adding a male. If you go that route you want to keep them seperated. Middle Eastern males can be relentless rammers and biters (they act more like Ibera's than Graeca graeca's) and can do a fair amount of damage if the females can't get into a enclosed area.

I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me. We've met and do you get the feeling I do?
Anyway, if you choose not to use the Mazuri tortoise diet that is your loss (no I don't get kickbacks).
Goldens absolutely love the stuff. I feed it once a week and nobody can deny the fantastic development that is produced from using the stuff.
I'm sure a guy with all your years of experience of tortoise keeping... you can understand the quest to raise a good looking tortoise. Well... I think I've found the answer(not really) and the Mazuri Tortoise diet is a good part of it. Sorry if that pisses you off, Ernie.
Seriously... There is something in the diet that benefits the animals. Two words of caution. It is not a complete diet as I once thought and the manufacturer states and if it goes rancid and you feed it, it can kill your pet (as well as rancid hay).
Once or twice a week will blow you away with the results.
On the Golden Greek pictured (i wan it), that is the kind of growth you can expect.
(ok, i'm finished)
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

How do you know when Mazuri has gone rancid?

Thanks

sorry, but I can't tell you but it is something I'm really affraid of.
The regime I use is keeping the stored stuff dry and removing any that has been fed after one day.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

it's best to remove them within an hour or so if possible since bacterial multiplied rapidly in the summer

I haven't gotten that paranoid yet. I figure if they can eat rancid meat and crap (as they do in the wild) they must be pretty tough. That's why I figure a day or 2 is pretty safe but I don't see anything wrong with removing it after they've walked away. I've also got it down to feed them as much as they are going to eat. That is, they usually finish it in one sitting.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

If I buy a 50# bag will it go bad if kept dry and in an air tight container? I never leave any food out more than 1 day. Personally, I would not eat any food left out for a day. I would guess that bacteria would develope in a wet mazuri over time.

I've heard that it can but I never worried about it because a 50lb bag lasts me about 2 months. I keep it in a 5 gal bucket and sealed. As long as it's kept dry I'd bet that it could go a year or so
I've heard people freeze it for up to a year or more with no problems.
I'd suggest finding a friend to share it with.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

don't they have an expired date somewhere on the bag ? (consider a company like Mazuri!).
again, depend where you live, foods not only go bad quicker in the summer but the minute you ring that bell...there's all kind of (uninvited) suckers that follows your torts to the diner table...sure, the big guys might be tough, but i'm more concerns about the itzybitzyones...don't wait till THEY becomes DINERS

Beautiful looking female Middle Eastern greek!

Thank you!

Don't feed her any Mazuri.

I've never heard of Mazuri. Why don't you like it?

Lots and lots of weeds. Ours consume grape leaves, plantain, cactus, clover, mallow, and sedum mixed with Herpnutrition's Grassland Tortoise mix.

Is the Herpnutrition mix a ready to eat food, or is that the seed mix you plant and grow? Do they have a website? I found a site that sold the cactus but didn't save it. I need to find it again.

Also, keep the ambient humidity below 50%. The hide area can be at 60-70%, but sustained humidity above 50% will bring on RNS. You don't want to go there...trust me. Watch for bubbles from the nose. If you see'em, get her to a vet ASAP.

I am going to invest in a dehumidifyer as soon as possible. The humidity is ok now, but could get too high if we have a bad rainy spell.

Good luck and give her a chance to get acclimated (12-15 months) before you even consider adding a male. If you go that route you want to keep them seperated. Middle Eastern males can be relentless rammers and biters (they act more like Ibera's than Graeca graeca's) and can do a fair amount of damage if the females can't get into a enclosed area.

If I've given the impression I wanted to add a male, I am sorry. I did want to get her a friend if she would benefit, but was looking for another female. I don't want to breed, I would be too paranoid about who would take the babies.

Thank you for your input!

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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

I've never heard of Mazuri. Why don't you like it?

Mazuri is a canned tortoise food. Like most of the canned reptile foods, it is made of soy and grain products. None of the main ingredients are recommended foods for tortoises. It is manufactured by a company that makes foods for zoos. I think the website for their products is www.mazuri.com

It seems to me that it is almost as if they took the base formula for dry cat and dog foods (soy and grain) and added enough vitamins and minerals to compensate for the lack of calcium and other nutrients in soy and grain.

I've used it with my russians and leopards. I can't say that it does any harm, but I can definitely say "It hasn't killed them yet."

I, like EJ, only used it as part of a varied diet. But it seems that when my animals eat it, they gain weight and become less active. When I feed them weeds and greens, they spend the day grazing and their weight seems a little more stable.

Unlike EJ, I have only a small number of animals: 4 adult russians and 2 juvenile leopards. It is relatively easy for me to provide lots of weeds and clover from my yard for much of the year, and fill in the gaps with endive, collards, etc. If I had a large collection (or a zoo), I'd probably want to use something like Mazuri to lower the workload of preparing so many meals.

I used the last of my Mazuri a week ago. I won't buy anymore. I've got a little can of Pretty Pets Iguana food that I'll finish off, and then I don't plan on buying any more canned stuff for my torts. Can't convince myself that it's a good thing to feed soybeans, corn, wheat and oats to animals that live off of broad leaf weeds and grasses.

If you decide to use the canned foods, I'd recommend using it as a supplement, not a dietary staple.

Oh, I never even knew they made canned Tort Food. I did buy the RepCal Tortoise Pellets but it says it has fruit and the care sheets on Greeks said fruit only as occasional treat so I'm using it sparingly. I picked two dandelion flowers for Sunshine today and hand fed them to her. She LOVED them, the most excited I've seen her so far about any food.

My friend who cares for several Tortoises uses 12% Horse Pellets in his mix. He still feeds all the other stuff too. I bought a bag to try it. You wet them a bit since the pellets are hard.

Here is the info on the pellets...

Protein 12%
Fat 2.5%
Fiber 15%
Calcium .9%
Phosphorus .4%
Copper 20 ppm
Selenium .6 ppm
Zinc 100 ppm
Vitamin A 3000 iu/lb

I don't know what ppm means, or iu/lb. There is no code key.

Ingredients
Processed grain by-products, roughage products, grain products, molasses products, forage products, calcium lignin sulfonate, calcium carbonate, salt, plant protein products, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, ferrous carbonate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, vitamin D3 supplement, copper sulfate, magnesium oxide, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

I'm open to comments about using these as part of a varied diet. I know it's hard because so many of the ingredients are vague.
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

I think 'canned' is just an expression of prepared diets although there are a couple canned tortoise diets.
The horse diet is basicaly the same thing except that the Mazuri Tortoise diet has been researched for tortoises for about 20 years and is still in the process of being researched.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

i'm not sure what exact temps are ok for concrete... if i don't think "ow!" when i feel it (really scientific way of measuring temp, heh), i'll put him down on it, and he never seems to flinch or anything. he'll crawl onto it on his own accord pretty often, too, so if he has enough sense to know and remember what he doesn't like to eat, i figure that if it made him uncomfortable, he wouldn't do it.

while i love that junior is so small, i'm also anxious to see how he grows up. i've seen plenty of adult redfoot pictures, but it still blows my mind to try and picture him as being over a foot or so in length someday. that's a little blueberry wedge that was in his mouth in that picture; he loves his fruit (and his spring mix salads, too)!

...she might likes it!
p.s_(about that Shamrock) are you Irish by anychance?

Tickle her where? When I touch her toes she ducks back in her shell. Speaking of the shell, can they feel anything through it?

And no, not Irish. Mostly German. Both Grandpa's were 100% German, one Grandma 100% German, and my other Grandma is mostly German and I always forget what else.

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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

leave her chin and neck for later when she's more relax...just her back (carapace) for now... it's beneficial for boths of you; she got a good massagewhile you get a free manicure without a trip to the nail salon.
p.s_that's a beautiful thing that you wear! ... what is it, a bp? (BodyProtectORballPython?)

OK, I'll give that a try. I'm "wearing" Bear, my 7 foot Carpet Python. That photo was taken at our annual show last year. We bring some of our own animals to the show, so people can get up close to them and touch them, since the vendors don't like you touching anything you aren't interested in buying.
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)

She's very cute, you seem to be very enthusiastic just as I was when I first got my little egyptian tortoise good luck.

PS. I see your a ferret lover too. I have 3 boys and a girl myself. Funny little ferts they are. My oldest(and favorite shhhh ) is developing adrenal so He has to get surgey soon.

Best of luck with your ferret's surgery. I started out with an albino ferret. His name was Gentle. He was full grown and the man who surrendered him to the pet store said he was in the Army and got called to active duty and that's why he surrendered him. The story touched me so I vowed to give him a good home. He told the pet store that the ferret was about 6 months old and in perfect health. I had Gentle for less than 3 months. Spent close to $1000 in vet bills during that time. Gentle hadn't seen "six months old" in quite some time. My vet estimated he was seven or eight years old. We diagnosed him with Adrenal. He had no hair loss, but had other symptoms. I took him in for surgery on my birthday and was so excited to go pick him up thinking I'd done something good by saving this poor fuzzies life. When I got there I was greeted with some really bad news. The adrenal was on the right side and impossible to operate on as it was snug up against the vena cava (I think that's the right vein, it's been a while now). Also, Gentle was riddled with Lymposarcoma. The surgery really did him in. He never fully recovered and had to be put to sleep 3 weeks later when he could no longer stand up on his own. Such was my introduction into ferrets. As you can see, it hasn't dulled my love for them though. I lost another ferret to Lympo back in February. Not even a year old yet. It's so sad when they get sick. I will say some extra prayers that your fuzzy pulls through and makes a full recovery!
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Lyns Lair
Frogwatch USA
WNY Herpetological Society

0.1 Cat (Mia)
4.2 Ferrets (Wolf, Shadow, Verdell, Sullivan, Boo, Peach)
1.0 Carpet Python (Bear)
1.0 Malagasy Blonde Hognose Snake (Wilbur)
1.0 Yellow / Everglades Rat Snake (Pumpkin)
1.0 Russian Sand Boa (Fang)
0.1 Normal Corn Snake (Mysty)
1.0 Banded Water Snake (Ripley) coming soon!
0.1 Golden Greek Tortoise (Sunshine)
1.0 Whites Tree Frog (Trevor)
2.0 Solomon Island Eyelash Frogs (Chompy & Gimli)
1.0 AFT Gecko (Cocoa)
5.6 Leopard Geckos (Trouble, Scooter, Simba, Firenze, Teddy, Nala, Mystique, Freckles, Dotty, Zipper, Twister)