Reptile & Amphibian Forums

can anyone tell me more about this species? its locality, how dwarf is a dwarf (i heard it was only 7.5 feet max.) , when was it discovered ,are they being sold in the market and for how much, etc etc.....
thanks

can anyone tell me more about this species?
*Not much is known as they are still new to the market. Only a few have been imported. NO studies have been done on wild populations.

its locality, how dwarf is a dwarf (i heard it was only 7.5 feet max.)
*Funny how people put a size on all the wild caught specimens. Like what happened with Dwarf retics the 6-7ft max is now almost 15ft with jampea's (Nerd's massive female is approaching or has hit 15ft). All c.b.b. dwarfs have almost or have doubled in size compared to their w.c. counterparts. Just something to keep in mind! If 7.5ft turns into 10-12ft Personally I'd rather save a LOAD and buy a sri lankan python (Python pimbura), much more attractive IMHO anyways!

when was it discovered ,are they being sold in the market and for how much, etc etc.....
thanks

Discovered only a few months ago they are being sold in the market today. Morph specialities were the ones to have them imported. I've seen a price on what I believe was a trio 1.2 for $20,000. IMHO this is a bit rediculas but whatever some people will buy them just as an investiment. Plan on spending a Load if you really want these guys.

John

Just to correct you on one thing, no true 'scientific' analysis has been carried out on the Dwarf burmese, but people have gone to the particular locale and found various results. One of which was the small size and very few individuals.

Also, they were discovered a couple of years ago. It is only about 8 months or so since they have actually been imported though. None of the adults have grown particularly in that time.
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Regards
Chris Jones
Chris Jones Reptiles
Sand Boa Forum

Hi. You can find all information and pictures on them at my website. www.morphspecialties.com

As far as its locality, that’s not information that’s being released yet. What defines a dwarf? Being smaller than average? Anyway, wild adults get no bigger than around 7’ long. We haven’t yet raised captive babies to adult size yet but they are born at 50-60 grams. But in nearly 7 months the babies are still only about 2’ at the biggest. The males breed at 3-1/2’ long and the females seem to breed as early as 5’. Usually a snake can breed at a younger and smaller size in captivity due to being able to eat more than in the wild. I imported the first ones nearly a year ago. I bred them and hatched babies in Dec 2003. A few have been sold, there aren’t many around yet. I have breeding and should have more babies by end of this year. The market has been established for pure dwarves only at US 10,000/per pair, the price for morphs crossed into the dwarves will be higher and has yet to be determined.

I have a wild caught male albino that is going to be bred to a dwarf female to produce new blood albino dwarves, should be a long and interesting project. I will keep you updated. The main thing is to keep BD out of this project.

And as a correction, captive jampeas Do Not get significantly larger in captivity than they do in the wild. That is only a rumor that’s been going around. When they were first imported nearly 10 years ago, people were told that they maxed out at 6 or 7’. But in the wild they are known to be up to 10’. Most captives get to around 10’ and very, very few get to 15’ like nerds big jampea female.

Thanks and if you have any questions, shoot me an email.
Savannah

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Savannah
Morph Specialties
New Imported Morphs
morphspecialties@yahoo.com(New Email Soon)
morphspecialties.com(Under Construction)

It's all a matter of opinion and in my experience this is what I've noted. Yes c.b.b. jampeas are larger then 90% of the imports that come in. Maybe not double...I could of been exaggerating a bit much but yes they are larger for sure. Dwarf retics are also born smaller then normals, although they still get big. I wonder if they are true dwarfs or just smaller locals? Anyways just my thoughts

John

Just to correct you on one thing, no true 'scientific' analysis has been carried out on the Dwarf burmese, but people have gone to the particular locale and found various results. One of which was the small size and very few individuals.

Did I say a "scientific" analysis has been carried out? Read again my friend.

John

BD......BD???????

How do you know these animals are not already carriers. Have you scientifically proven that these animals do not carry it????? I do not believe that BD is even proven to be a "disease" as of yet, and is only a "myth". There is no scientific data, that I know of, that proves any of this BD talk is true. If you know of anywhere that I can read about scientifically proven BD, please post a link, it should be some interesting reading.

Jason

Does she mean IBD?

Raven

Yes that is what they are talking about.

>>Yes that is what they are talking about.

BD is an acronym for "Burm Disease". IBD on the other hand is short for "Inclusion Body Disease"

Burm Disease, as it has been described, is a mysteriuos illness that is highly contagious and thought to possibly pass from parent to offspring. It supposedly causes all sorts of respiratory problems in burms and eventually manifests into pnuemonia. I personally don't think that such a disease exists. As mentioned earlier, it is just an excuse for improper husbandry of the Burmese. Burms need more exercise and more humidity than most keepers provide for them in captivity.

IBD acts on the nervous system and is sometimes called "Star-Gazing". The two are totally unrelated.

Tom

I have heard of IBD (who hasn't?) but had never heard anyone mention BD/Burm Disease. While I suppose it 'could' potentially be a legitimate disease (I'll let the scientific community argue that count), I do know for a fact that there are far to many people who keep their burms in sub-par conditions - as I have witnessed that myself first-hand. Perhaps it is a mix of the two? Poor conditions would surely result in the potential for more diseases or disease carrying organisms.

I think I'll do a bit of research for more reliable resources.

Raven

Ive always considered them to be one and the same. Whats the symptoms of BD and whats the symptoms of IBD? Remarkably similar. Its the same thing.

The symptoms for IBD are generally a loss of neurological control. The snake appears to be almost dizzy and has no balance. Upon necropsy, the inclusion bodies that are belived to cause the neurological problem, can be seen in the pathology.

BD...as it has been described, is a weird bacteria or virus that affects the respiratory system. Eventually...as it has been described, will grow out of control until the animal has such bad secondary infections, in the lungs or other organs, that they can never recover and will eventually become septic and die.

The two are not in any way related. Any snake, especially boas, can show signs of IBD. BD is supposed to be isolated only to burms.

Tom

I seem to remember hearing of many instances of (ultimately) IBD snakes getting seriously nasty RIs because their immune system is so weakened. I think its worth investigation....

I am completely in agreement with you on this one Jason. I have been keeping and reading about burms for nearly 18 years and have yet to come across anything of wieght that proves BD exists or any studies done in regards to it for that matter. My personal opinion is that it is a safehaven people have came up with to explain why they have had snakes die. More than likely it was because it was housed improperly and fell ill as a direct reflection of improper husbandry. Todd

Jason.. It may not be yet medically proven to be a disease, but neither was IBD. Who knows what it is, but there is something that captive Burmese pythons have gotten that does kill them. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can talk to many breeders that have worked with Burmese, Peter Kahl, Dave Barker, etc. I have never had it before and I am thankful of that, but these very experienced breeders believe that it is something and its best described as Burmese Disease. Can I prove it?? No you’re right I cant. I am not saying anyone has it, just saying the main thing is to keep these healthy.

As far as it being an excuse because the people don’t know how to take care of their snakes?? Check this link where Dave Barker talks about his thoughts on BD .

http://www.vpi.com/VPIMailBag/vsforum.asp?fid=253&ftid=[filtername]&fvt=1&gid=[groupname]&iaction=2506&lst=&mid=541&mvt=2&nAction=2506&tid=[configname]&uid=[userloginname]&forumview=1&frm=1&ftc=[page_folder]&fte=&mte=&st=&sb=&so=0&valuetosearch=&action=3250

And here is an email from Dr. Elliott Jacobson, from Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences
College of Veterinary Medicine University of Florida

RE: Burmese Disease "BD"

“We have acquired some information on this disease but do not know the
specific causative agent identified. Many of these snakes also get
septic thrombi that go to the tail vessels and cause necrosis of the
tail. Unfortunately there is no money to study this in detail. One day
we may put together our findings into a paper.”

This is a real thing. Whether you want to believe it or not is your choice.
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Savannah
Morph Specialties
New Imported Morphs
morphspecialties@yahoo.com(New Email Soon)
morphspecialties.com(Under Construction)