Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have no clue what she is, the pic is horrible she didnt want to be disturbed in her moist hideout lol
She looks to me as a tangerine striped carrot tail....but Im not sure about the stripe part. She is way brighter then in her pic, I will take some more tomorrow.

She definitly looks like she's got a little stripe in her. As for carrot-tail, the definition varies but generally the animal has to have solid orange for 10% of the tail with no black until then... but she does have some great orange on there. Looks nice and fat too =)
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles

What is a true Carrot-Tail? How much carrot is necessary? IMHO it takes about 25-30% of solid color to be a true carrot-tail. Is it recessive or co-dominant? Craig Stewart claims it is recessive. His video shows carrot-tail x normal breeding gives all normals het carrot-tail. I have searched different gecko forums and used google to search the web without finding any other claims. Some people claim not to have much success in getting good carrot-tails in their tangerines. Many sites advertise available geckos as carrot-tail x tangerine cross but they don’t have enough carrot-tail to be a true carrot-tail. This supports Craig’s claim that carrot-tail is recessive.

The Terms of Heredity & Genetics Definitions linked from KS define Allele as “either of the two paired genes affecting an inherited trait (one from the father, one from the mother)”. But structural variations between alleles may lead to different phenotypes for a given trait. Phenotypic variation is observed as randomized distribution of variations. But gene exchange does not create differences; it can only remix what already exists. The mixing process homogenizes the gene pool. Over time, all offspring become similar, unless new sources of variation are added. A modifier must be added here. Then remixing of genes during gene exchange does produce individual combinations in new ways, but pre-existing genes must be used.

I believe there is room for much improvement in carrot-tails and all other morphs. You must look for variances in new breeding stock, which will get you the results you’re after

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BigSurf
www.SurfinBird.com
Robert@SurfinBird.com

Kelli, Robin and me did those kind of crosses for a while now and Kelli done it for 3 years. They are not ressivce they are slective bred for increasing Carrottail and CoDomaint in some of line. This year I cross Super Hypo Carrottail into Hypo Tangerine and produce few really nice Carrottails and Hypo Tangerine has no History of Carrottail. They are not Ressivce Genes from my breeding... The people who has hard time to make Carrottaile from Carrottail Cross Tangerine is because the carrotail don't has large % of ct and it led to lower % of ct from the Hypo Tangerine cross... My option they has to be 10% or more to be an true Carrottail and soild. Few spots are fine but not like normal.
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Preston Berry
www.freewebs.com/coolgeckoUnder Construction
restonberry@austin.rr.com" target="_blank">Prestonberry@austin.rr.com

I agree with what Preston said. I'm unsure if the orange tail is a recessive gene (I doubt it), but the hypomelanism found in 'True' carrot tails is either dominant or co-dom.

I believe Ray Hine coined the name 'Carrottail', so I believe you can only call a gecko a 'True' CT if its lineage can be traced back to his line. He imported a few wild-caught Hypos some years ago that helped him create the Carrot Tail. Think about it, if you can pull most of the black from a normal high yellow leopard gecko, you'll be left with yellow and the orange found at the base of most leopard geckos tails. The first Carrot Tails weren't tangerine, and many you see sold as Tangerine Carrot Tails today aren't either. They were developed by cross breeding/selectively breeding with Tangerines and Hypo Tangerines. This is why you see so many crosses being sold nowadays.

If I were to buy a 'true' carrot tail, I'd assume I was also getting that dominant hypo gene found in his CTs. If I didn't get it, I'd be a little upset.

Info posted here a while ago on CT genetics
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Rob Jenkins
Have you seen the GeckoCam?
Herptopia Reptiles
Email Me

Rob,
You stated: "if you can pull most of the black from a normal high yellow leopard gecko, you'll be left with yellow and the orange found at the base of most leopard geckos tails". I agree.

Melanin is the natural substance that gives color (pigment) to skin, and the iris of the eye. It is a dark compound or better a photoprotective pigment. Its major role in the skin is to absorb the ultraviolet (UV) light that comes from the sun so the skin is not damaged. It is one of two pigments found in skin; the other pigment is carotene, which contributes yellow coloring. Pigments are substances that absorb light at particular wavelengths and generally reflect light at other wavelengths. When the reflected light reaches your eye, the eye and brain interpret the mixture of reflected wavelengths as color.

But the natural 10% or so orange found at the base of most leopard geckos tails does not make them a carrottail. Preston is calling these carrottails, and I disagree.

The best way to confirm if carrottail a recessive mutation is to breed it back to a normal like Craig Stewart of Urban Gecko did and his results were that it is recessive.

I do agree that hypomelanism is co-dominant. There appears to be at least 3 phenotypes or factors of hypomelanism: hypo, super hypo & super hypo baldy.

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BigSurf
www.SurfinBird.com
Robert@SurfinBird.com

The color in leopard geckos is caused by melanin and a layer of chromatophores containing erythrophores(reddish) and xanthophores(yellow), which is why when we really take the melanin away (albino), we're still left with yellow and red leopard geckos. I don't believe reptiles have carotene, but I'm not sure.

I'm not going to argue too strongly against what Craig says, because he's bred a half billion (approximately) geckos more than I have. So does that mean, if we breed two carrot tail crosses together, we'll end up with large amounts of orange on the tails? I dunno, someone who has done it should tell us.

I don't know about calling hypo, super hypo and super hypo baldy different phenotypes, just different degrees, like you can have different degrees of tangerine show up on geckos from the same parents. I think there are definitely two types of hypo out there. The co-dominant ones that come from Ray Hine's line, and the selectively bred ones. I think that you can get any of the above three from the co-dom geckos, and I think it's pretty hard to get super hypos consistently from the line bred ones. If I remember correctly, Albey was real far along with his hypos before the co-dom hypos came around.

Anyway, great discussion. Thanks.
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Rob Jenkins
Have you seen the GeckoCam?
Herptopia Reptiles
Email Me

Rob,
I agree "Great Discussion"

You stated: "So does that mean, if we breed two carrot tail crosses together, we'll end up with large amounts of orange on the tails?"

It should, but breeding the two crosses (het carrottail) would only produce 25% homozygous carrottail, 50% het carrottail, and 25% non carrottail.

Breeding a cross back to the carrottail would produce 50% homozygous carrottail and 50% het carrottail.

You also stated: "I don't know about calling hypo, super hypo and super hypo baldy different phenotypes, just different degrees, like you can have different degrees of tangerine show up on geckos from the same parents."

I said phenotypes or factors. Factors and degrees I consider the same. I'm new to reptiles, but I bred color mutaions in exotic birds for 19 years. Some of the co-dominant traits in birds had single and double factors, while others had various degrees of color. But that's a discussion for another time.

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BigSurf
www.SurfinBird.com
Robert@SurfinBird.com

Here's my stripe (I'm not sure if mine has tangerine in her either) and tangerine. I'd say she is a stripe for sure. Not sure about the carrot tail.

yep...

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Josh
My Email

Cross her/him to stripe and it is too hard to tell from when they are adult might be Abberant or Stripe.
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Preston Berry
www.freewebs.com/coolgeckoUnder Construction
restonberry@austin.rr.com" target="_blank">Prestonberry@austin.rr.com

She is still brighter then in the pics my camera isnt so great, but it shows a much better view of her.

np

It doesn't have a striped tail, so I would call it a jungle. Also, it has a little orange at the tail, but not a carrottail. I don't think it's a tang either, more of a yellow color to me. I would call it a nice jungle.
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Josh
My Email