Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey everybody, it was kind of nice to be away for a few weeks.

well the kimberlys have given me a fresh start (don't know if i mentioned here before) with a fresh batch of good eggs. they have been breeding again since then.

i was talking with bob mendyk the other day and he told me about Sam Sweet's paper suggesting that kimberlys and pils are not closely related. i can not help but wonder then if the offspring of the two are fertile?? kind of like retics and burms crossing and having to cross back to pure lines. i do know that i have them setup differently because of where they come from. my kimberlys are setup in a more woody setup and the pils are in an outcrop desert setup. does anybody know where that leaves tristis?... if glebos are close to pils and tristis close to kimberlys??? and then there is the timor part of that, are they closer to kimberlys and tristis????

oh well, just thinking outloud,

cheers, andrew

Andrew,

Bob is quoting information I gave him, but it is not my work. I was referring to a paper on DNA sequencing and the evolutionary relationships of monitors written by Jennifer Ast (published in Cladistics vol. 17, pp. 211-226, 2001).

Ast's results show that Odatria is a natural group (= Odatria had a single ancestor, and now includes all of its descendants). Within Odatria there are two lineages, one with V. eremius as the basal species, the other with glebopalma and pilbarensis at the base. The eremius lineage includes gilleni and caudolineatus, probably brevicauda, and all of the spiny-tailed species (acanthurus, baritji, kingorum, primordius and storri), whereas the glebopalma/pilbarensis lineage includes tristis and glauerti, scalaris and its relatives, timorensis, semiremex and mitchelli. V. glebopalma and pilbarensis are one another's closest relatives, as are tristis and glauerti.

Ast's results only address differences in DNA sequences, and are not particularly informative about the reproductive competence of hybrid animals. Incompatibility often has more to do with differences in chromosome structure than to some percentage of difference in DNA sequences. Since we know that gouldii X panoptes is a viable cross, many of the species pairs that Ast discerned would be likely to produce fertile crosses, but that likelihood diminishes as relationship decreases.

Another part of Ast's results has V. komodoensis and varius as a species pair, with V. salvadorii closely related to those two. Anybody ready for crocomodos? Varicrocs?

that makes sense,

always fun to learn something new. andrew

Frank already has crossed the two but I believe he stopped as the babies werent as nice looking as the adults. The ones I seen I would have to agree they dont look as nice as you would think..
Robert

Yea, and V.varidorri, may be coming to your neigborhood pet shop soon. FR

You can't even tell the difference between red and yellow ackies let alone the words i typed.

i said the offspring of pilbaras x kimberlys, as in f2.

ps, the undersized one died two days after arrival and the one with half of a chewed off tail died last monday, which was interesting because he was eating quite well. they are all getting along fine without appendages however, how tough they really are. although i knew about the toes.

andrew

OOps I meant Creations..
That means you cant as well since I sent you a number of pics of them. They were thriving here. Now I see why you get slammed all the time on the forums, it all makes sense now. You dont know or do any homework of your own before asking for the answers..
Robert

I should have done my homework, as in I should have found a way to look at the pics like go to the library, etc, my computer was acting up and i made a mistake in trusting you.

please understand this, i don't care if i get a little flack on the forums, they are fairly silly anyhow, i just find them fun so i come here. there are also some very good and fun people, that has been a bonus.

help me understand something here though. that is the words "doing fine"

doing fine: 2 layers of stuck on shed upon arrival
doing fine: half of a chewed of tail
doing fine: missing every last toe
doing fine: 3 larger monitors and one miniature, dominated one
doing fine: smaller monitor has a hard time swallowing adult crix
doing fine: half of a chewed off tail was infected at arrival

is that your definition? Robert, I hope, really hope that you did not raise these up, that would be a shame and a testament to how you care for your animals. One of the things I couldn't get over is that you live in Florida but they have layers of stuck shed. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i got the very raw end of the deal because i screwed up and trusted somebody i didn't know, so i am willing to leave it here.

andrew

You asked for that reply, all I was doing was offering info you didnt have..
As to the Ackies I had them for one month and those shedds were coming off. Full description was given as well as pics. If your PC was acting up then you should have said so.. All you said was you didnt have any new pics of yours as you didnt have a camera?
They were eating, gaining weight and starting to shed.. Even if you only got a pair for this one eyed cross you got a deal,,
i never had a problem with you until your post..?
Robert

They came out exactly between the two, in size, in color and in behavior. Enjoy FR

cool pic Frank

thanks, i didn't know you crossed back the offspring.

the chromosone structure must be closer in odatria than it is in large pythons.

andrew

Thanks for sharing that pic.

Of course babies are very cute. But they grew up to be mud colored. I did sell some and I heard a fella in Chicago bred them. But since I have not heard a thing about them. Oh, at one time, he had offered them for sale on the classifieds. FR