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I got to reminiscing and unpacked this slide of the first Drymarchon I ever caught and the story behind it kind of interesting. It was August of 2001. I hitched a ride with a couple of cousins and a friend to this little surfing village in Michoacan. We had been camping out for the weekend and they would go surfing during the day while I was out looking for beaded lizard burrows, Agkistrodon, and who knows what else. In any event, we were all having breakfast one morning at some little thatched-hut restaurant on the beach when a commotion behind us caught my attention. I looked over and there were a couple of kids hitting something in the sand with a rake. I wasn't sure what was going on but got up and walked over because my gut said. "They're killing some kind of animal", though I had no idea what. When I got there, I could see it was a little snake. I rushed in and grabbed it before they could hit it again while yelling a few choice words at them in Spanish. Well, it was a little rubidus. Dead, no doubt, because it seemed totally lifeless and limp. I looked at it for a few minutes, felt pretty badly that I hadn't gotten there sooner but noticed that it had no outward lacerations or injuries. My camera gear was across the beach in the tent so I just stuffed him into my cargo shorts pocket and planned on posing him in as lifelike a manner as possible for a picture later. I went back, sat down and finished breakfast with my cousins who could care less about snakes but saw how badly I felt, at least. Then, about five minutes later, I feel the snake moving around in my pocket. I reached in, pulled him out, and he appeared surprisingly well. Alert, trying to escape, responsive. All I can conclude is that he was knocked unconscious by the kids but not seriously hurt. I bagged him up properly back at the tent, kept him there for a few hours to make sure he was really alright, then took him about a mile up the beach, shot this photo, and released him into the brush. I think a young indigo's odds of making it to adulthood are pretty slim anywhere these days and who knows if he ever ended up making it or in somebody's stomach but at least he got a break that day.

BEAUTIFUL ANIMAL!! But... I believe that's a melanurus.

Eric

I didn't realize melanurus was found that far north on the Pacific side. If so, what makes you say "melanurus"? My biologist friend in Mexico who I showed the slide to said "rubidus" without hesitation. I'm curious to know the difference in case I catch a youngster there again.

Hopefully I'll be able to post photos of neonate rubidus in a couple of weeks....

I'm not sure at all. It's just a gut feeling.
I've never seen a young rubidus but, I have seen pics of black tails that look very much like the pic you posted.
I'm sure there are some here who can say for sure what it is but, my guess is melanurus.

Eric

and it's truely a guess, I'd say that snake is a melanurus / rubidus integrade.

Range descriptions of Drymarchon in Mexico are sketchy at best, but melanurus has a huge range and is on both the east and west coasts.

It integrades freely with every other central american sub of Drymarchon over a large part of the range.

From the range descriptions that I have seen (which are old),
It would make sense that they would integrade in that area. The reddish color suggests rubidus, and the black tail suggests melanurus. Now, your biologist friend in Mexico may know more than any of us gringos, but who knows. Integrades are often tough to determine.

VERY cool snake. I have heard of rubidus with pink in them, but have never seen one. I'd give anything to see the parents of that snake !

Thanks for sharing!

Aside from the two erebennus in So. TX recently, that's the only other Drymarchon I've seen in the wild and I had only knew of rubidus as a name in a book previously, so didn't have any context for it. I originally told my friend at the Guadalajara zoo (the biologist I referred to) that I had caught a young "melanurus" but after describing it to him, he said "rubidus". Later, I showed him the slide and he confirmed it. Didn't look too surprised, either, so maybe that's something not out-of-the-ordinary down there. FWIW, the guys there at the zoo told me that they have three species of reptile which are capable of recognizing individual keepers on sight: The King Cobra, the crocodiles, and Drymarchon.

I remember seeing some wild-caught cribos from Mazatlan during the 80's (sort of tan-grey in coloration). The story was that my friends were there looking for Sinaloan Milksnakes and had arranged to purchase some from a local family who would catch and hold them in the meantime. Invariably, other species were collected as well. I recall my friend telling me about the night he showed up at the family house, which was dirt-floor building, and them pulling a big burlap sack out of a wooden crate. They undid the wire tie and pulled out a 7'-long Cribo which promptly regurgitated about a dozen adult toads all over the living room floor. He said that he had never seen a room full of people clear out so fast once they smelled that. It wasn't really the snake they wanted but he felt so bad about the incident that he gave the family some money anyway, then took the snake down the road and released it. Gotta' love the "Sh***ing Cobra"!

Thats interesting - thanks. For as close as it is, there is not a lot of knowledge of Mexican herpetology here in the US. Good to read your accounts.

Joe

I have not seen one that pink since the days of "THE SHED" back in the 70's. They had a specimen that was even more pink-with a black tail.

Rubidus differs from the other Indigos in that the eye is proportionally larger than in its cousins. It also has a more slender build (note the slim neck). Also the snout is more slender. Add in location and you have a much stronger arguement for rubidus.

To confirm someone should be able to key it out based on it's head scalation. I do not have a key to the genus,but by visual comparrisons with photos of both subspecies, it definitly comes out as rubidus. Particullarly note the 5th supra-labial that makes contact with the eye in rubidus (and in the mystery snake). It does not in melanurus or the others.
Frank

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Typing with a injured back not recommended......(ouch...ouch)

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

and it was the 6th-not 5th.........(i'm having a day....)
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Man,...The Shed. Does that ever bring back memories! I wonder what Louie and Joe are doing these days? I used to really look forward to getting those price lists in the mail....then the mad rush to get the money together and order something before somebody else bought it. They used to come up with some real different stuff sometimes, stuff nobody except Hank Molt (Herpetofauna) and maybe Terry Lilly (West Coast) could get. The difference was that The Shed was above board and legal and stood behind what they sold...with the others, there was always that little nagging doubt. Back in those days, you didn't need permits for venomous if you weren't living in Florida..you could just go buy it and walk right out with it. I got some beautiful Gaboons, Rhinos, B. schlegelli, B. atrox, assorted Cobras...they had really nice Bushmaster in there once (they were extremely hard to find) but somebody scooped me on it. I do remember a couple of pretty bad incidents from that, though...one guy that drove down and picked up some stuff with his girlfriend, stopped to spend the night on the way home in Gainesville. He had picked up a Russell's Viper that had a stuck shed, so he decided to soak it in the bath tub of the motel room. When he tried to get it out of the tub, he got a little too close to it and it bit him in the stomach. He spent several months in the University Hospital, lost a large percentage of the muscle tissue in his abdomen, and went from about 160 lbs down to about 100 lbs by the time he got out. He was lucky to live, though.

Ahhh...the good old days....

I have observed D. c rubidus in the past, which demonstrated a calico pattern, speckled pattern and something a bit like the specimen pictured. I am expecting a calico specimen to arrive within a couple of weeks, been waiting on this group for sometime now, and I will post a photo, once it arrives and settles into quarantine.
While D. c rubidus are highly variable, the specimen pictured has the phenotypic appearance of D. c melanurus found within the Quintana Roo region of Mexico.
I have seen neonate D. c rubidus, belonging to Dr. Rossi, and they look nothing like the individual pictured.
For comparison, here is a head shot of one of my sub-adult D. c rubidus.
I have eggs due to hatch any day now, so I should have photos of neonate specimens as well.
In regards to the D. c erebennus photo you posted, and the subsequent response you incurred. While there is a possibility of zoonotic pathogen transmission, I believe this issue is slightly over rated, especially among solitary species, such as Drymarchon.
Drymarchon are not found in colonies, so a rapid spread of pathogens among an immediate population would be unlikely, though possible. I would actually be more concerned about the Drymarchon passing a pathogen off to a keystone species, such as Gopherus polyphemus, particularly with D. c couperi.
As for documented cases of pathogen transmission, one merely needs to examine the wild populations of Gopherus agassizii, in AZ, CA, NV and UT. Several of the wild G. agassizii colonies continue to dwindle, due to URTD, believed to be introduced by humans, through the release of captive specimens into the wild. Also, there is a documented event involving pathogen transmission among a group of Cyclura Iguanids, suspected of originating from human interaction, though the exact etiology is still being reviewed.
As for the law, I’m not certain how strict they are in TX these days. I lived there for two years, and much of my family still resides there. I know Texas used to be one of the most proactive states, in the area of wildlife protection, and I am certain any enforcement officer there will recognize what you have in your hand. Then again, there is a regular contributor here, in Brownsville, who has mentioned a lack of enforcement with regards to D. c erebennus, even mentioning a local who hangs them on the barbs of his fencing, and finding drift nets beneath overpasses, left by researchers, which have entangled D. c erebennus. I also recall a couple of photos posted on this forum, of individuals handling WC D. c erebennus, for a photograph, to no ill affect from on behalf of regular forum members
While I am certain I would extract a Drymarchon from harms way, I would certainly think twice about capturing a specimen merely going about its business, especially in the locality of a state or national park.

Jeff

It sounds like you've worked with Drys in the field in Mexico?

Are you aware of any decent range maps?

Are you up on the ranges?

I created a rough range map, and would like your input if you think you could help...

Thanks