Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just updating everyone on how things are going. My dragon is doing fine off his diet of Calcium powdered raw chicken slices. Every other day? If this is a big no no, please tell me. Sometimes I'll add strawberries, or lettuce, or spinach to the meat, and the monthly fuzzy, and just a cricket or two to munch on. But mainly its Calcium powder with chicken. He seems to be doing fine with it, not too fat, not too skinny?

Heres a pic I took today:

-----

www.mplionhearts.com

and i have no opinion either way about the chicken.I have never tried it and have no knowledge about it but if it is working for you and you see no ill effects then go right ahead. Again he is nice healthy looking dragon.

Alissa

I would not sdo it. The risk of detrimental liver failure on the long run is trmendous.
These animals are adapted to arthropod diets.
That means relatively low protein, a lot of dietary fibres and all the gut contents of healthy arthropods.
Chicken muscle ist very high protein of poor diversity. Its all but a balanced source for all essential amino acids and and adn...I quote myself from an earlier post:

...".and its still missing dietary fibres and still is very high in phosphorous, proteins and thus nitrogen.
Sorry, even though obviously this recipe is widespread in the US, with my knowledge on lizard metabolism I would never use it for any insectivore.
To me the risk that the animals may develop gout or kidney problems after a few years is too high.
The sad thing is that it may take years till any effect may become obvious. But once you see symptoms, kidney problems in lizards are almost always irreversible.
Is there any insectivore lizard you know of, which has been fed this for more than 10 years and ist still healthy?
I do have lizards which are 10, 15 and even over 20 years old.
I doubt , theyd be still with me upon feeding such stuff.

Just my 2 cts"

Ingo

The most insects are equally in high phosphorus content, that is why it is so important to use a calcium suppliment. As far as the benifits of feeding insects are concerned, I think that you have as many health risks there. In the wild they get a greater variety of insect fare and work alot harder for them.The biggest problem with captive Waterdragons is a monotonous diet and being too fat. And thats a danger wether your feeding chicken or insects. I am not diagreeing with you about the possible dangers, I am just saying the same issues exist with any food item you would choose to make a staple diet. Variety is the only good diet and perferably whole animals/insects.

Hmm, okay, I appreciate both your opinions, I'll cut down the chicken to more of a monthly treat think, and try to get more insects in his diet, yet I must say, cricekts are getting to be kind of a waste for the money, he'll eat 12-24 in one shot, and i'd need a ton to keep him going, any ideas? I can try breeding crickets again, but its sometimes hard to get right.
-----

www.mplionhearts.com

The high Phosphorous is a very well known problem in CB insects.
Thats why you have to gutload and dust.
But anyhow, ist easy to provide a variety of 4-8 gut loaded feeder insect species. In addition with well chosesn supplements this sis a way better diet than any meat canbe.
These insects do contain chtin as dietary fibres and the whole portfolio of different components which make up an organism.
Meat only contains a very limited set of ingredients, its extremely high in proteins but also extremely low in protein diversity.
Thyt means its not a balanced source of essnertial amino acids. And and and ...I don´t want to force you into things you do not like, but I stick to my statemnts.

Best regards

Ingo

I prefer fuzzies as a staple, supplemented with the occasional insect feeding. Crickets are mostly water and should be avoid altogether. My oldest WD is about 16 years old and I have raised him primarily on a fuzzy diet and he has not had any health problems. My female which is about a year younger, still lays fertile eggs and was raised on the same diet, so while this is antedotical, and not scientific, it certainly is compelling. If anybody has raised waterdragon on crickets that are older then mine, I 'd like to hear about it.

Experience is what counts.
So your diet obviously is fine for WDs.
I do not have any WD, but I have bred basilisks in F4 and have 10 year old specimens which have never seen a vertebrate feeder item.
Anyhow, I agree that mice are goofd food, but I htink theres quite some risk in overfeeding a lizard with mice.
Thsi would not happen to an expereinced keeper, but its a risk for newbies.
BTW I have kept several other lizards healthy for over 20 years each without vertebrates. My oldes lizards is a Gerrhosaurus nigrolineatus which I aquired in 1984 as a large adult and which is as healthy as on its first day in my home.

Best regards

Ingo

I agree, overfeeding is probably the biggest health threat that captive lizards face, and yet it is the least talked about. Since fuzzies and pinkies are such a richer food, it important to feed your animals less often when on this diet, I feed mine once a week.

He looks a little thin, his tail is creased and his hip bone is sticking out a bit. I wouldn't just feed chicken either, as Ingo said, it is very low in nutrition and high in protein.
-----

I have to disagree with that. That waterdragon is the perfect picture of health. As far as the hip bone thing goes, that ideal comes from a very old standard for picking out healthy imports. If you buy a lizard with a fat tail and no hip bone showing you are asurred of buy an animal that is not going to starve to death in a week, so the standard was fat equals health, and that just isn't true. Its like saying a man isn't healthy unless he has good size tire hanging over his belt. A far better indicator is muscle tone, color and general responsiveness.

He looks awesome! I think your fine as long as you add plenty calcium and the occasional multivitamin. Although I think you'd be better off with thawed frozen fuzzies. How old is he?

Fuzzies might be better, but i have a feeling its similiar to chicken, that it should be treated more as a snack then a meal. Hes about 3 years? I think.
-----

www.mplionhearts.com

looks good.!! Try feeding superworms (pref fresh molted ones) if crickets are a hastle. If you supplement them and try feeding other items you should have a good source of protein. Mine will eat earthworms and supers .

good luck