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I was wondering how long after a hatchling comes out of its egg and starts crawling around I should feed it. I've got four that cut the eggs last night and came out of them this morning...

I should mention, though, that these four are smaller than the normal hatclings.... much MUCH smaller. They are the product of an accidental breeding with a yearling ghost corn and a yearling normal corn that is het for snow and blizzard. I thought the two too young to be interested in gettin it on, so to speak, and found out they resemble humans in that area... not sure when they're ready for what.

Anyway, to make a long story short, they mated and the female dropped her clutch and four of the six hatched. (by the way, for those of you who have read the Corn Snake Manual, and know the "record" for that 27 inch female that laid eggs successfully, this one blows that away. My snake was just shy of 18.5 inches when she dropped. She came through it fine and is gaining weight back nicely, but I still wouldn't want to repeat the process. I was worried sick over her for about 4 weeks!!!)

Now I have these little bitty corns that are in the neighborhood of 3-4 inches in length and I don't know when I should feed them what. Any advice would be more than welcome. I've read that baby corns in the wild prefer baby frogs and lizards to start off with and I've thought of starting these that way since they are way too tiny to go with pinky mice yet... Also it'd help to know about when I should expect them to get hungry...

Thanks for the input.

Dave

PS> Just wanted to make it clear that I understand the risks of breeding snakes before they're mature enough. I just didn't think these two would go at it. I hope those of you who didn't know take this as a warning and seperate any sex pairs of snakes you don't want breeding yet. I got lucky that my female didn't egg bind or have some other complications... I don't recommend anyone else pressing their luck.

Oh yeah, and I'm gonna try and get some snap shots of these little guys up soon. They're really cute. I'm really worried though and I want to do my best to make sure the little tykes make it.

Okay, done now.

Dave

congrats on the babies hatchlings usually shed about a week after hatching and after that first shed is when most people begin to offer food...since they are so small baby anoles may be a good idea if you can find em also newborn like within an hour or two of birth baby mice may be small enoughespecially if there are alot of babies in the litter... but those will be really really hard to find. i have also heard of people feeding just the pinky heads to the babies and since yours sound extraordinarily small maybe try butting the pinky head in half-messy but it could work... let us know how they do Good Luck!
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~~~Amy~~~
my zoo LOL
corns
1.0 caramel/amber het butter motley-Phoenix 1.0 sunglow motley-Eli 1.0 ghost-Alex(kinked) 0.1 charcoal-Siva 0.1 caramel het butter-Kilowea 0.1 butter 50% het motley-Mango 0.1 ghost-Pandora 1.0 hypo motley-Vishnu
leopard geckos
0.1 hypo tang-Ms. Cleo 0.1 normal-Valentine
others
1.1 dauchshunds 1.0 cat 2.10 fancy mice(and way too many babies to count LOL)

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Do you have any pics? I'm not trying to chalange you , just can't imagine 3-4" corns let alone yearling breeders. I've heard of 18 month breedings , but when you say yearlings I'm assuming you meen 2003s. That would truely blow my mind.Honestly your post sounds sincere . I think you would have some kind of captive corn breeding record there.It would be a real shame if your claims are legit and you didn't show any pics and your claim where forgotten or dissmised.

Back in the 80’s yearling breedings were fairly common place. Power feeding was generally accepted as being ok and yearlings were routinely bred. The small corn babies are admittedly on the small end of the scale but not hard to imagine either. In fact I have a fertile eggs that was laid this year by a female that also laid 18 other huge eggs (twice the size of most of my eggs, elongated) but this one eggs is about half the size of most of my “normal” eggs. I thought at first that it would be just a dud, but 4 weeks into it and it is still going. I have to assume that the baby in there is going to be super small!
As far as feeding, yes you need to wait for the shed. If you live in an area with anoles then small ones are easy to get, if not then f/t pinkie heads do work well. I normally will have a few of them in each bag of pinkies I get, but you can also de-head your frozen pinks to feed to your tiny corns, Your regular corns will eat the rest of the pinkies with no problems
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

was the question about wether or not the snake is gravid or if it is inpacted with an egg/eggs ?

np

Thanks for the info. Didn't realize that this kind of thing had happened a lot before.

Thanks too for the advice on feeding. I'll look for the signs of shedding in the next few days.

Also, for those of you who were wondering, I have snapped a few pics of these impressively small corns and they came out pretty good. I'm going to work on getting those posted this evening.

In the pics, there's a standard size paper clip (2 inches). My lil beauties are just under twice the length of that paper clip. I'll post them when I figure out a way to get the things from my camera to my computer.... I already tried wishing it, and that didn't work. Time to find a plan B.

Dave

Well, when they bred, it was in like early April and the two snakes were just a little bit over a year old. I think they were actually 13 or 14 months at the time (hatched as very late 02's).

As far as the pics go, I'm working on that right now. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the data transfer cord for my dig. camera. No worries, though. If nothing else, I'll get a cheap disposable at wal-mart and get a photo cd when develop them.

However it happens, Pics are definitely forthcoming. I want you guys to see these little beauties.

Dave

Okay, from a stodgy old math teacher's perspective... if they bred in late april, that would mean they laid around the end of May... and should hatch around the end of July. So I'm guessing they didn't really breed in April. It must have been earlier than that. SO, they LAID about mid to late april. If they were late '02's and hatched in December that would make them 16 years old.

I have to also ask... how did you measure her, and how did you measure them? Even visually, a coiled snake next to an object whose length is known is not the most reliable method of measuring a snake. Serpwidgets snake measuring program is excellent for this purpose.

Sorry to sound like a doubter, but I guess I woke up on the doubting side of the bed this morning. I am very anxious to see pics of the babies, and if you can post pics of the momma and papa snake that would be helpful also.

I'm very glad for you that your girl was able to lay the eggs with no adverse effects. I would be very sad to lose a snake to something *I* made them do like lay eggs. I decided when it was too late when my tiny two year old was too young to have eggs, but she'd already been bred. Luckily it was only 6 good eggs and 6 slugs, and she had less trouble with those than the larger older snakes.... and now darnitall she's getting ready to double clutch, as is the other two year old. The three year old went through the process of egg laying and was the most drained, and hasn't eaten since laying and I'm afraid I'm going to lose her. Just goes to show that there is more than age, weight, and length involved.

>>Well, when they bred, it was in like early April and the two snakes were just a little bit over a year old. I think they were actually 13 or 14 months at the time (hatched as very late 02's).
>>
>>As far as the pics go, I'm working on that right now. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the data transfer cord for my dig. camera. No worries, though. If nothing else, I'll get a cheap disposable at wal-mart and get a photo cd when develop them.
>>
>>However it happens, Pics are definitely forthcoming. I want you guys to see these little beauties.
>>
>>
>>Dave
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~Sasheena

>>Okay, from a stodgy old math teacher's perspective... if they bred in late april, that would mean they laid around the end of May... and should hatch around the end of July. So I'm guessing they didn't really breed in April. It must have been earlier than that. SO, they LAID about mid to late april. If they were late '02's and hatched in December that would make them 16 years old.
>>
>>I have to also ask... how did you measure her, and how did you measure them? Even visually, a coiled snake next to an object whose length is known is not the most reliable method of measuring a snake. Serpwidgets snake measuring program is excellent for this purpose.
>>
>>Sorry to sound like a doubter, but I guess I woke up on the doubting side of the bed this morning. I am very anxious to see pics of the babies, and if you can post pics of the momma and papa snake that would be helpful also.
>>
>>I'm very glad for you that your girl was able to lay the eggs with no adverse effects. I would be very sad to lose a snake to something *I* made them do like lay eggs. I decided when it was too late when my tiny two year old was too young to have eggs, but she'd already been bred. Luckily it was only 6 good eggs and 6 slugs, and she had less trouble with those than the larger older snakes.... and now darnitall she's getting ready to double clutch, as is the other two year old. The three year old went through the process of egg laying and was the most drained, and hasn't eaten since laying and I'm afraid I'm going to lose her. Just goes to show that there is more than age, weight, and length involved.
>>
>>>>Well, when they bred, it was in like early April and the two snakes were just a little bit over a year old. I think they were actually 13 or 14 months at the time (hatched as very late 02's).
>>>>
>>>>As far as the pics go, I'm working on that right now. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the data transfer cord for my dig. camera. No worries, though. If nothing else, I'll get a cheap disposable at wal-mart and get a photo cd when develop them.
>>>>
>>>>However it happens, Pics are definitely forthcoming. I want you guys to see these little beauties.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>-----
>>~Sasheena
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~Sasheena

Okay, I think you were right about the laying the eggs part. The eggs were dropped some time in april, not sure when. I know i got the snakes in early january and they were together from then on. Not sure exactly when they bred or when the eggs were laid, because I wasn't expecting it to happen and therefore wasn't keeping tight records on that stuff. Plus, with the hangover I had earlier this morning, even simple addition would have been way out of my league....

I do know that the snakes were sold to me as yearlings when I got them in January. Not sure if the guy who sold them to me meant they were born around Jan. of 03 or if they were in fact late 02's. Just not quite sure on that point.

As far as measuring, I did several methods of that. First, for the female that laid the eggs, I took a piece of string and started at her nose. I ran the string down her back bone, following the contours as she twisted trying to crawl away. When I got to the tip of her tail, I marked the string and measured. I used this method last year in a field study on southern pine snakes I helped with at the university. It seems pretty effective as long as you keep tight track of where the string is and don't let it slip off.

The babies, however, are a different matter. They're so tiny right now I was nervous about trying the string method as I didn't want to harm them by restraining them too tightly. Plus they wriggle around vigorously and are bound and determined to sink their little teeth into my fingers whenever I touch them. So, I laid all four on the hardwood floor in my living room and waited for one to stretch out. When it did, I put the paperclip down next to it and got a look at the snake extended almost fully (two little curves in its back as it was getting ready to crawl away) next to the 2 inch paperclip. With the two bends in its back, the hatchling was just a lil over twice the length of the paperclip. Not the most accurate measurement, but it'll have to do until I feel more comfortable about restraining them to measure.

I'm not familliar with the snake measuring thing you mentioned. If you have any advice or improvements for my attempts, please let me know.

Dave

PS> I found a way to get the pics up. Waiting for my girlfriend to get back from class and I'm going to use her computer to post them. Instead of a cord, I can just plug the lil memory card into a slot on her computer. My my my the marvels of technology, eh?

What a marvelous detailed response! Thanks for taking my "doubting mood of the morning" with the grain of salt necessary.

Sounds like your doing good. As far as serpwidget's program... I'm not sure I remember the link to find his software. It's a very simple free program. You take a picture of the snake with some measurable straight line object (paper clip does the trick) and snap the photo. Then you use the program to first set your measurement... then measure the snake, it's a very reliable tool, and I have been glad to have it!

I would use the given suggestions of a pinkie head, snakes can get their mouths around pretty large objects. I am VERY much looking forward to seeing the pictures. IF you don't already have a photo account here at kingsnake.com you can get one, and they allow a certain amount of photohosting for free... then when you post your message, there is a little drop down menu with the list of photos in your album there, so you just select the appropriate picture and voila! Again good luck with the babies!

>>Okay, I think you were right about the laying the eggs part. The eggs were dropped some time in april, not sure when. I know i got the snakes in early january and they were together from then on. Not sure exactly when they bred or when the eggs were laid, because I wasn't expecting it to happen and therefore wasn't keeping tight records on that stuff. Plus, with the hangover I had earlier this morning, even simple addition would have been way out of my league....
>>
>>I do know that the snakes were sold to me as yearlings when I got them in January. Not sure if the guy who sold them to me meant they were born around Jan. of 03 or if they were in fact late 02's. Just not quite sure on that point.
>>
>>As far as measuring, I did several methods of that. First, for the female that laid the eggs, I took a piece of string and started at her nose. I ran the string down her back bone, following the contours as she twisted trying to crawl away. When I got to the tip of her tail, I marked the string and measured. I used this method last year in a field study on southern pine snakes I helped with at the university. It seems pretty effective as long as you keep tight track of where the string is and don't let it slip off.
>>
>>The babies, however, are a different matter. They're so tiny right now I was nervous about trying the string method as I didn't want to harm them by restraining them too tightly. Plus they wriggle around vigorously and are bound and determined to sink their little teeth into my fingers whenever I touch them. So, I laid all four on the hardwood floor in my living room and waited for one to stretch out. When it did, I put the paperclip down next to it and got a look at the snake extended almost fully (two little curves in its back as it was getting ready to crawl away) next to the 2 inch paperclip. With the two bends in its back, the hatchling was just a lil over twice the length of the paperclip. Not the most accurate measurement, but it'll have to do until I feel more comfortable about restraining them to measure.
>>
>>I'm not familliar with the snake measuring thing you mentioned. If you have any advice or improvements for my attempts, please let me know.
>>
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>PS> I found a way to get the pics up. Waiting for my girlfriend to get back from class and I'm going to use her computer to post them. Instead of a cord, I can just plug the lil memory card into a slot on her computer. My my my the marvels of technology, eh?
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~Sasheena