Reptile & Amphibian Forums

THANKS
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NICK

Either breed a patternless to a patternless, a patternless to an forsure het patternless, or two forsure hets.

geckogurl_04

forget my first reply I read your post wrong, thought youonly wanted patternless, oops. The only way I know to get patternless albinos forsure, forsure, would be to breed paternless albinos together, but ther's got to be another way, or there wouldn't be any patternles albinos, right? Sorry, I know about patternless, but not albinos.

thanks anyway geckogurl.
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NICK

there are many different ways to go about it. I think below you said that you had patts. and albinos, so I will explain doing it with those two. First breed the patts. to the albinos. All the hatchlings will be normal looking but will be dbl. het for PA. Try and take two of these dbl hets.(preferably from different parents) and breed them together. you then have a 1/16 chance of getting a PA. That is only if you have rainwater albinos, the chance of getting one with Tremper albinos is much lower. Hope this helped,
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Josh
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WHAT If I have an unknown albino now knowing if it's Tremper,Bell,or Rainwater?
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NICK

Well then you have a problem. It is more than likely Tremper, as most unknown albinos are. Most petstores carry trempers so if you got yours there then that is probably what it is. If you post a pic some of us might be able to help identify it. If it is a Tremper, then your chances of producing a PA are very low and you will be completely lucky if you do get one. As not many have been produced.
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Josh
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I do have a pic and pics I would like to upload but for some reason when I hit the submit button the little hourglass thing on my computer screen pops up like there's something happening but they won't upload!Thanks Josh
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NICK

?

I think it has something to do with the chromosome the gene is one or something like that, they just arent as compatible. It they were, we would see many more Tremper Pa's. All the ones we see for sale now are Rainwater Pa's.
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Josh
My Email

From my post to your other post below:

Both patternless and albino are recessive traits. Meaning if the offspring has only one parent homozygous for the patternless trait, all off spring will look normal, but be heterozygous for patternless. 100% het.

Think of a homozygous patternless genes as looking like this

pp

a het patternless's genes would look like this

pN

The N stands for Normal, and the Normal gene will always be expressed and dominate over the patternless one

Same for an albino, an albino has genes

aa

Het albino is

aN

If you breed an albino and a patternless together, assuming neither are already het for the other trait, you will get all Normal looking geckos that are double hets, their genes would look like this

pN aN

Now in sexual reproduction, only one gene from each gene pair is given to offspring, so you have a 50% chance of a patternless het giving a p gene to its offspring, and a 50% of it giving the N gene. Same for albino.

Breed two double hets together and this is your chances of what you will get statistically:

Het. patternless, Het. albino,
x
Het. patternless, Het. albino,

6.25% WT NN NN Normal, no recessive genes at all
12.5% Het. albino, aN NN het albinos, no patternless genes
6.25% Homozygous albino, aa NN An albino! Not het patternless
12.5% Het. patternless, pN NN (looks normal, het patternless only)
25% Het. patternless, Het. albino, pN aN (double het)
12.5% Het. patternless, Homozygous albino, Albino! Het patternless
6.25% Homozygous patternless, Patternless! No albino genes
12.5% Homozygous patternless, Het. albino, Patternless, het for albino
6.25% Homozygous patternless, Homozygous albino, Patternless Albino!

For genes to be expressed physically, the animal must be homozygous: pp aa

This means that for every 100 geckos you produce from breeding double het to double het, you have a statistical chance of getting 6 patternless albinos. Additionally, out of the normal looking geckos you will have no way of knowing which are hets or double hets. Out of the patternless, you will have no way of knowing which are also het albino. Out of the albinos, no way of knowing which are also het patternless. These are known as "possible hets". The only way to know is if you breed them to an animal with the potential reccessive trait and you get a baby that expresses that trait. In terms of sales, "possible het" is not worth much, if anything.

Also genetics don't always work out in reality the way they figure statistically. You could breed 100 double hets, and it would not be unusual to get 0 patternless albinos, because every time one is hatched, there's still only a 6.25% chance it will be a PA.

Like flipping a coin, you have a 50% chance it will be heads or tails. If you flip ten coins, the chances before you flip are 5 heads, 5 tails. However, If you flip 9 coins and they all come out heads, the chances of heads coming up on the next toss are still 50%.

If you want to get patternless albinos, you would have been much better off starting with double hets, or even better, albino het patternless and/or patternless het albinos, or even albino poss. het patternless, patternless poss. het albino.

If you breed wo albinos het for patternless together, this is what you will get, statistically:

Het. patternless, Homozygous albino,
x
Het. patternless, Homozygous albino,

25% Homozygous albino,
50% Het. patternless, Homozygous albino,
25% Homozygous patternless, Homozygous albino,

This way you get 75% albinos, all 66% possible het for patternless (they either are het or not, the 66% is just the chance that they are), and 25% patternless albinos. Much better odds.

If you don't want to deal with possible hets, you could mate an albino het patternless with a patternless het albino, and you would get the following:

25% Het. patternless, Het. albino,
25% Het. patternless, Homozygous albino,
25% Homozygous patternless, Het. albino,
25% Homozygous patternless, Homozygous albino,

The nice thing about this is while you still get 25% patternless albinos, you have NO possible hets. ALL offspring are at least het for both traits, because each has a parent that is homozygous for that trait. So you know exactly what you have.

Hope this helps.

Starling,

Did that give you a headache? You're incredible!!!!

Thanks for the genetics lesson!!! much appreciated.

JJay
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JJay
3.4.1 Leos
(& 5 eggs cooking)
0.1 Map turtle