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Need some opinions from Epicrates people on what anery Angulifer might be "worth"...

HomesickAggie Jun 20, 2004 10:01 AM

I have a Cuban Boa that is by all means anerythristic. I've posted pics of her before. I'm planning on getting newer ones soon. She's about 10 months old now and gets more black, white and grey with every shed. I keep waiting for her to brown out and erase my hopes of her really being the only animal of her kind in the world but it's not happening. I'm wondering what an animal like her is actually worth. I know it's mostly in the eyes of each individual because there's nothing to even compare her to. I know anery BRBs are being sold for $3,000 but cubans don't exactly have the same pet trade appeal. And it also hasn't been a proven genetic trait yet. I also wonder though, if maybe a "morph" in this species would highlight their appeal cause they are really awesome and underrated snakes to keep. I'm only asking because I really doubt I'm gonna have the patience to hold onto her for 10 years to prove her out. And if by chance I sell her, what I should consider her value to be. I hope you guys view this topic as something interesting to think about and not petty. Thanks in advance for any opinions. Ryan.

Replies (12)

triniian Jun 20, 2004 05:13 PM

All I can say is, unless you are willing to prove it out and price it as you please once the results are determined, the best you can do is ask for offers or settle for a price you are willing to part with.

Right now, based on the evidence before you, you hypothisize that the animal is anery. Finish the experiment to gain from its potentiality.

You can't sell fool's gold as real gold because it looks like gold.

Right now your snake is valued as a 'unique normal' which would price it at the upper end of the normals value. If you prove it out, it could be worth the significant time investment.

I don't really see a way around this. Sorry and good luck.
-----
-Iman
1.1 Sugar Gliders (Gizmo and Nema)
1.0 Ball Pythons (Spot)
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0.1 Brazilian Rainbow (TBA)

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Imans House of Herps

mayday Jun 21, 2004 11:28 AM

I don't think that qualifies them as being anerythristic. Although yours might be, black and silver Cuban boas are actually pretty common.

HomesickAggie Jun 22, 2004 08:08 AM

I've never seen them have any unusual coloring other than some reddish tones. All I've ever seen are dark brown and black. Sometimes golden. Do you have any pics to support that? I've talked to alot of people about her and they've all said she's like nothing they've seen before. And all the info I've ever found, which really isn't a whole lot, never mentions them having the tendency to display the coloration of this one. I've posted pics of her before. I hope to get new ones soon.

mayday Jun 23, 2004 06:39 AM

While many of them are brownish or red, specimens from one end of the island (I can't remember which) are more silver and black.
There are photos of some pretty nice black and white ones in Henderson's book on West Indian boas.
Also, see "The Boas of the Genus Epicrates and Their Antillean Relationships" for a discription of the color differences of E.angulifer.
Peter Tolson used to produce some very striking, jet black and silver (or white) Cuban boas and their are a number of them around now I guess.
The point is that Cuban boas are highly variable in color and can appear as grey, brown, red, tan, black and silver and so on.

HomesickAggie Jun 23, 2004 12:00 PM

This one was produced out of 2 clutches with the same father. It's the only one that turned out this way. So regardless, producing really nice rare colored babies is better than the common dull brown.

jay w. Jun 24, 2004 05:39 PM

Ryan and I have discussed this snake a few times. I have seen tons of Cubans, and most are the "normal" color phase. I have also seen and owned the nice high contrasting angulifer. I have seen Peter Tolson's and they are the lighter phase, as Mayday referred to. I agree with Ryan, a nice unusual light snake is much nicer versus the more common form. Is it a true anery? A pic would definitely help.

In my experience, I do believe the color variation to be a matter of geography/locale. On Jamaica the boas from the western end of the island are the yellow form. With the orange form inhabiting the majority of the island, its easy to assume the fewer yellows are something different. I've seen most of the subflavus in this country, a bunch on Jamaica, as well as my own large collection of subflavus. I only have one yellow out of 8-9 orange/gold/tan boas.

I'll email Peter and see what he seems to think. In the meantime, a pic would help bolster Ryan's claim, or quite possibly disprove it. All and all, it sounds like a gorgeous specimen that I would hang on to, and try to breed.

Just my unprofessional observation.

Reagrds,
Jay

HomesickAggie Jun 25, 2004 07:55 AM

Hey Jay, how's it goin? Yeah we definitely have discussed her a few times. I think I bring her up every time we talk, don't I? Haha.I've shown you all the pics I have of her a few times too, remember? You told me one time you had never seen anything like her. I'm posting a link to a gallery that has a few older pics of her and her half brother. The pics are about 8 months old when she was just a little baby. She's 10 months old now and has just gotten more bold in her anery look. Check them out. Hope you all like. Copy and paste.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?user=33235&cat=500&thumb=1

jay w. Jun 25, 2004 11:59 AM

Hey Ryan,

You are correct, I have seen this angulifer before. I talk to and correspond w/ people about so many different animals, I tend to forget or lose track. After re-viewing your gallery, that possible anery. Cuban is very different versus a normal looking Cuban. I will forward that pic to Peter Tolson and get his two cents worth.

Jay

mayday Jun 25, 2004 02:07 PM

Looks identical to 2.2 that a good friend of mine had from Pete Tolson. Also looks EXACTLY like some of the ones the Dreher Park Zoo in West Palm Beach, Florida used to produce.
Certainly an outstanding animal but I have to say that I have seen a good number just like it. This also resembles a pair pictured in Henderson's book.

HomesickAggie Jun 25, 2004 02:39 PM

Haha. Well then what's your explanation for her being the only one with that coloration out of 2 clutches totalling 7 babies? And the difference is quite obvious. It's not just a subtle difference in tone or something. Weren't you claiming it to be an issue of locality too? Seems like if they're siblings, they're probably all from the same locality. I don't know, I appreciate your opinion. But you're the only one with that opinion out of at least 20 people who have had the interest to take a look. Also, those pics don't represent her truly, of course. No pics ever do. She's alot bolder in person. Like I said, pure white, black and grey. As far as I'm concerned and according to just my own personal experience with Cubans, she's the only one like her. Whether ot not it's genetic remains to be seen. Check back for the answer around 2010 or so.

mayday Jun 25, 2004 03:15 PM

That's too funny!
OK.......I'll check back in 2010.

Jeff Clark Jun 25, 2004 10:28 PM

...The snake looks too polychromatic to be anerythristic. I have not seen lots of Cubans but several of them I have seen looked a lot like this PIC. Snakes have much normal variation in coloration. I think that is what this snake is.
Jeff

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