Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is this the same hypo hondo that Falcon and others have produced?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=225063

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I thought the less melanin in the black makes a hypo a super hypo and not the reduced black (pinstripe).

Seigel hypo

pweavers hypo

Shannons Falcon hypo

The first giveaway is that the snout is definitely darker. The extreme hypos have a very light gray snout. Also, do you know if the Seigel snake has had it's first shed when the picture was taken. That can give it more of a gray appearance if it hasn't shed yet. If it has, then it's possible that it's somewhere in between a normal hypo and an extreme.

Here's a picture of the clutch that my extreme hatched from. The extreme is in the lower left. The one to the right of it is a normal hypo. The one on top is kind of an integrade with medium gray bands. Not an extreme, but not a normal hypo either.

It looks like the black is definetly washed out. I have not seen that washed out appearance in any of my neonates even during pre shed.The only thing is the red bands are not as bright neon ornage and the black bands are not as reduced. Otherwise it looks like a super hypo to me. Why else would the black bands be faded and it have red eyes?

Rainer,Here is a hypo from gregg moss.It has red eyes and is kinda grey but is nowere near the extreme hypo of the falcon line.
Kevin Hanley was the first to get a snake from mike falcon and his will prove out this year.He has bred it x a normal hypo and to siblings etc.

Anyways,The osborne "super " is just a cleaned up version of the old love strain hypo.

The only extreme hypos out there belong to,falcon,hanley, alveraz,dunham,myself and I think Paul Weaver has the same thing from his own breedings.

Anyways,I don't think that the animals on siegals adds are even close to a extreme hypo.I have several with off grey and red eyes.

Anyways,Thats just my $.02

shannon

I forgot the marketing term wass the same for Osbornes hypos.

Anyway I believe what you are saying Shannon but I just don't SEE it yet. That Seigel animal still has much lighter black pigment than the pic you posted. Maybe you can show me some at the Expo this year that have the lighter black pigment that are not Extreme hypos.

Raine

Rainer,
I will bring some to the show for sure.
See yah there,
shannon
p.s. don't forget about my peanut butters,

shannon

So are the Siegal hypos, and not extreme hypo's? Are they compatiable to super (extreme).if bred together would they produce all hypo's?

If bred together they would make hypos, that's for sure. Whether or not any of the offspring come out as Extreme Hypos is unknown, but I would guess most likely not.

Then how would a extreme hypo be produced and also what aspects qualify a hypo as a extreme hypo?

I guess the correct answer is that nobody knows for sure yet. Mine came from a pairing of normal looking hypos that were siblings. I think Falcons come from a hypo to het-hypo pairing. Not sure if his are siblings are not. There are a couple of people doing test breedings this year to find out if this is a recessive trait or not.

And the Siegal could possibly produce a pair of extreme hypo's correct? The are more than just normal hypo's correct?

The Siegel hypos just look like normal hypos to me. Maybe just a little lighter. I wouldn't expect to see an Extreme come from one of them, but nobody knows for sure.

I agree the Siegal one looks to me lke a light normal Hypo. From pics I have seen it looks different than the Osbornes ones and much different than the Falcons. The results of all test breedings will be interesting for sure. Tom

I agree the Siegal one looks to me lke a light normal Hypo.

What you are looking at is the red and yellow pigment. If you look at the black pigment you will see the same light black pigment. The lineage of the Falcon stock has alsways been top notch. Mike has produced Hondos with deep reds that express themselfs differently when a hypo gene is mixed in.

Here are some Hypo brooksi that I produced. They are all from different lines. After the first hypo brooksi popped out of Bill and Kathy Loves stock and Doug Beards stock many other people had the hypos pop out of their wildcaught stock. This different lineage produced different shades of yellow and reds but the hypo gene is all compatiple (allelic) with one another.

If the Siegal "hypos" will produce an extreme as well. Due to there are now apart of my collection.I hope to meet you Paul w.,Shannon B. and Terry D. at the Daytona show this August.
Kevin Stoltz

>>If bred together they would make hypos, that's for sure. Whether or not any of the offspring come out as Extreme Hypos is unknown, but I would guess most likely not.
>>

paul,

allow me to disagree with you for one moment. I don't think we know yet whether they'd produce hypos or not. If they're two different alleles, two different hypo morphs, then they wouldn't: the cross of a "normal" hypo and an "extreme" hypo would produce normal looking babies double het for both morphs.

on the other hand, maybe we're seeing the extreme ranges of variability within the single "love" hypo trait. There's always some individual variability (see shannon's pic above of the differences in two albino clutchmates, for example). Maybe the extreme is just as light as the regular hypo gets...now, the selective brfeeding involved may mean that breeding "extreme" x "extreme" will produce babies most or all of which look "extreme," but only in the same way that breeding albinos with yellow central rings would produce more babies with yellow rings than with orange or white central rings. And crossing an "extreme" to a dark hypo might produce some of each, or all animals in between.

Some of the test breedings going on at Kevin H's and Mike A's might give us these answers this year. I'm looking forward to seeing the results (Mike's bred a pair of extremes--that's an important test--and has a 2nd female (mine) breeding now with his extreme male, so we'll have two chances at that important test breeding (will they all be extremes?); he's also bred his extreme male x a tricolor hypo of mine, just the traditional hypo line, and that will give us some answers too--will all the babies be normal looking double hets? will there be some of each, and points in bet3ween?

All these tests might be complicated by the fact that if they're two different hypo morphs, the ones mike produced might be extreme het/love hypo, for ex., and thus SOME Of dthe crosses might produce some of each. The answers may be obvious when we see the results, or they may raise more questions than the answer.

But at this point, i don't think we can safely conclude yet that the cross will produce hypos for sure.

peace
terry

Terry,
I thought all of the honduran hypos originally came from the Love strain?
btw, how is the test breeding with Mike A. going so far (ie. do you have any eggs yet)?
Paul

>>Terry,
>>I thought all of the honduran hypos originally came from the Love strain?
>>btw, how is the test breeding with Mike A. going so far (ie. do you have any eggs yet)?
>>Paul

my understanding is the anery female is due to lay any day, the tricolor hypo is in shed, and the extreme female has been breeding but hasn't entered shed phase yet. i'll try to get more details & put 'em here.
terry

I have only seen a few that barely resembled the intense brightness of the Falcon ones. I thought the Falcon ones were now labeled Extreme Hypos and the ones from the Hanleys and Osbornes are the Supers? In my opinion the Falcon ones are Hypoiest of the Extreme Super Freakin Duper Hypos on earth. If there's a nicer line I'd like to see it. Tom

Tom,
I think the supers of Falcon and Weavers do have more intense reds but the red eyes and washed out black on the Seigel animal still makes it a super. Maybe the original parent stock was different colors making it a lighter orange but the tell tale signs of it being a super hypo.

Of course no one has yet proven this "super" gene to be passed down and breed as a true reccessive trait anyway. But if it is a true reccessive trait seperate from a normal hypo gene then the Siegel animal would be allelic with the rest of the supers and you would get all supers from a super to super breeding. If its a simple trait, as depicted by Pweavers pic of an inbetween partial super, then it is just something in the selection processes of a simple trait that is passed down.

my impression, based on the extreme kevin h got from mike f at daytona, of the one i got from mike f in 02, and of several others mike produced which i've seen, is that the difference between them and traditional hypos is not in the orange or red coloration but in the rings that would be black: on "extremes" those rings are many shades lighter than on the lightest "traditional" hypo I've ever seen, and i've seen a lot of them. they're almost flesh-colored. "blond" would have been a suitable descriptive term for them.
terry

Is anyone who owns an Extreme[Falcon] Hypo breeding it too a Super from the Osbornes or one of the Hanleys Supers this year? Tom

The hanleys super hypo is a mike falcon extreme they just havn't changed the name.
Now,I know that there has been some breedings this year from a "extreme" hypo x normal hypo.When I say normal hypo I am talking about any other hypo out there including the "super"hypo from osborne.The super is nothing more than a cleaned up hypo from the bill love line from years ago.

shannon

>>Is anyone who owns an Extreme[Falcon] Hypo breeding it too a Super from the Osbornes or one of the Hanleys Supers this year? Tom

As shannon points out, kevin hanley's "super" came from mike falcon and was a very early and excellent example of what people have begun calling "extreme" hypo to differentiate the animals from the animals steve osborne called super hypos. Those animals (and i hope steve will comment here and correct me if i'm wrong) -- steve osborne's super hypos were noteworthy not because their dark rings were lighter than the love hypos, but rather because they had alternating rings of very reddish orange and orange, compared to the orange-and-orange of the love hypos.

If I recall correctly steve's first "super hypo" came out of a very old animal he had bought, VERY old, so it was figured it might have predated the love animals and thus be a different morph, but I think the animal it was mated to was related to the love animals, and that subsequent breedings to love animals produced hypos and at least therefore showed it was the same trait, the same allelic hypo. Steve?

peace
terry