Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi folks,

I know you get these questions constantly, but I'm looking for any suggestions on getting a juvenile albigularis to calm down. I purchased him three months ago as a chunky juvenile from pro-exotics (he's now about 2 ft total length). He's in a large trough with climbing spots and a basking spot that's plenty warm. I offer him insects four times a week, normally in a large dish to limit hunting. Insects are supplemented with fuzzy rats (on tongs), hard boiled quail eggs and ground turkey. He's gaining weight, but the bigger he gets the more frightened he seems to be. I work with him about three to four times a week, usually just holding him in a gloved hand and rubbing his neck, legs, back etc...he tolerates it, but does not seem to be getting any better.

I really enjoy the lizard and would like to develop some kind of a working relationship with him...alright, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Gabriel

Well, youve only had the little guy for a few weeks, right? Whats the rush in wanting him to calm down? Hes in a new environment, and has been through alot. Just keep interacting with him, and dont worry. Are you planning on keeping him till he dies? If so, then youve got the next 15 years (if all goes well) to worry about him being "tame". Chill, and I bet he'll start relaxing more too.

I've actually had him since about february (so a bit more than a few weeks). My point is that despite working with him minimally, he seems to be more stressed. I just want to avoid having a big unhappy monitor, which will make both of our lives unpleasent. I'm simply curious as to whether other albigularis group owners found that there monitors just eventually calmed down, or if it's one of these "the more time you put in, the more it will relax," situations.

thanks for you input.
gabriel

The advice from Cloudybengal is right on. With that said, what are you expecting? a few touches and friends for life?

Its your job to build a relationship with the monitor, not the monitors job to build one with you. So, what are you doing thats of benefit to your monitor. Please do not think the petting and touching is joyful. Its not. They simply hate that.

You should ask yourself, why would the monitor want to become tame, or tolerate you, or not fear you? Think about that awhile and tell us what you think. Cheers FR

Keep in mind that in the wild, anything bigger than him is a threat and could likely eat him. There is nothing seperating you from a leopard or a marshal eagle as far as he's concerned.
It's a simple matter of handling him repeatedly until he realizes you're not a threat. It takes time, but I've never seen an albig remain aggressive. Indeed, mine have always calmed down within a matter of weeks. As Frank said, rubbing him is neither here nor there. Their skin is made to withstand bites form vipers, cobras, and each other. They burrow in termite mounds and under rocks. It wouldn't do to have sensitive skin would it?
Be patient, and raise his cage up off of the ground. They are much more skittish when kept low. Things that eat them come from above.

Jim

All the comments you have received are right on. The first thing to ask is what are your goals with him? Then, are your goals realistic. Then, what are you doing to achieve those goals, and what are you doing to make those goals more difficult to achieve.

You do not provide enough information to answer some of those questions, so the following comments may or may not apply to your situation.

I hope your goal is to simply have a monitor that tolerates your presence and does not mind some interaction. Setting your goals higher than that often leads to disappointment. That is not a rule, but most monitors do not learn to "enjoy" your presence. Oftentimes, the more we attempt (more like force) to get them to enjoy us the more they fear (that is what those reactions represent: fear) us. Work on that basic goal and adjust your goals when you achieve that point, or adjust down if your animal never acclimates to that point. You might get an animal that appears to enjoy your presence. You might get an animal that despises you. Your behaviors now can influence the end result greatly, but you must also accept the animal controls that on its own as well.

Right now you are holding the 2 foot animal in your hands and rubbing him. Essentially you are forcing him to put up with your contact regardless of what it wants. That works sometimes (and I am sure there are people here for whom that method has worked). However, what usually happens is that either they become tolerant of this type of interaction or they become very ill-tempered animals that fight at every opportunity to get away. Lots of animals end up fitting the latter description, moreso than the former.

In my experience, rubbing is an action they learn to accept much later after initial trust is gained. Babies "tolerate" it because they are too small to fight you and when you stroke them they figure they are dead and do not bother fighting (they give up). Older/Larger monitors fight back in proportion to their size. I do not know what goes through a monitor's head or what insticts being rubbed triggers, but most of them do not seem particularly fond of this activity. I would suggest that touching them on their neck is a danger trigger for them (most animals do not like you near their necks when you are the size of a predator). Touching their legs, arms, and tails seems like a predatory assessment to disorient them (ever see how predators fling their prey about? Arms, legs, and tails make great instruments for subduing prey). It might feel good if their skin is dry or something is bothering them like an itch or if they are cold (and you are warm) or if they are one of the few that learns to enjoy it.

Most monitors learn to tolerate it because they trust you enough to know you are just going to annoy them a little bit and then leave them alone, similar to a compromise: if I let him pet me now, then he'll leave me alone later or he will feed me.

You have to accept that you are still a predator to this animal, especially if you have been interacting with him like this since he was a baby (and I suspect you have based on your post). 3 months and 2 feet is not nearly long enough to have established trust or any sense of your benevolent intents in his life.

You have made one conclusion that is very noteworthy: he seems to be more frightened. He probably is. So, my advice is to leave him alone. Establish a pattern where you feed him and he can associate the big predator (you) with good things (like food). As you establish this connection, he will fear you less and avoid you less. You can then attempt to pick him up or touch him (again, I'd avoid stroking him) in his world (enclosure). When he tolerates this contact, then you can move on to picking him up and interacting with him in your world (outside his enclosure). You might even get to a point where you can pet him and he will let you do so. You might have to settle for less.

One final piece of advice: do not violate their hide spot without a very good reason. They really hate (fear) having a home they think is secure and then suddenly it rises off of them and a predator appears.
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^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

After reading your reply, I feel more confident I'm doing things the right way with my blackthroat. I've only picked up Fluffy a few times. Once to take him/her to the vet, once when Fluffy got out and when I brought him/her home and put him/her in the enclosure. The first 2 weeks I only opened the door to change the water and to give food. Then I started feeding with tongs. It took another week for Fluffy to start coming to check me out. Fluffy thinks everytime the door opens food comes in, so I feed and set my hand on a log close to the door. Yes I am wearing gloves. Fluffy has started to get really close lately, less hissing and puffing up. Fluffy seems less threatened if I am lower than he is. I lay on the floor and he/she climbs up on a log. Doesn't seemed threatened at all by my hand has even used it to get to the basking spot after figuring out I have no more food.
I am in no rush with Fluffy, I want a monitor that acts like a monitor yet trust me.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

hi there,
i think trust is one important factor between the monitor and the keeper...even if you try to tame him for a couple of years, if he doesnt trust you at all, it's no use...instead of thinking different ways in taming him, why dont you consider sitting in front of his cage and think like him..like "hey, what if i'm a monitor, how will i trust this guy who keeps on attempting different things and touching me most of the time to "tame" me?" remember that he's smaller than you and he'll think that the taming process is youre showing him your dominance(maybe) w/c is stressful for animal.... earn his trust first and the rest will follow...

cheers!
neil

If it were me, I'd stop 'working' with your monitor. Monitors are smart and your monitor has pretty much figured out by now that whenever it sees you, you are going to grab it to 'work with it'. That's why it is becoming more nervous. Try leaving it alone for a while and eventually it may get curious enough to approach you. Of course, this will be only after it figures out that seeing you doesn't mean being grabbed - which may take a long while, since up until now its experience has been the opposite. This technique requires a huge amount of patience, but you'll be more likely to end up with a monitor that is calm around you.

Hi again,

thanks everyone for your replies, they certainly are useful. I think what most of you said is exactly what I want...a monitor that acts like a monitor but that is at least somewhat acclimated to my presence--notice I never once used the word "tame" in my orginal post.

Additionally, in my original post, I mentioned that there were two camps regarding building relationships with monitors: One, pick it up frequently and it will eventually relax. Two, do things (as Frank suggested) that allows the monitor to establish a trustful relationship with the owner without being overly invasive. Notice that even in the responses to my original question, both tactics were suggested. I think it's important that there be some continuity in how people respond to questions like this, especially considering that the "popular" though seamingly contradictory heuristic is that the more you hold it the more it will tame down (pet store talk for sure).

In any case, thanks again for your suggestions. I hope everyone realizes that I'm more concerned for the animals health here than my own well being and enjoyment. I simply want a lizard that gets the most out of its captive life.

A special thanks to Frank for answering a handling/taming (there, i said it) question after explicitly stating in previous posts he doesn't answer those questions!

Cheers,
Gabriel