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John Ginters line of red bulls from Kingsville Texas.

shannon

THAT is what you call a red bull! Great snake and pic Shannon, and i really like the pattern on that animal. HOpe all is going well out your way.

HAve a good one,

Gregg F.

>>John Ginters line of red bulls from Kingsville Texas.
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>>shannon
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Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

Gotta love those reds! Your's is the first pic, to me at least, that really shows a phenotypic difference between the two lines. Your Ginter line animal almost looks hypo by the reduced amount of black. Is that typical?

Scott and my line by contrast seems to retain a lot more of the darker pattern elements. The picture, by North West Herps, is of a sibling (though year younger) of my current breeder female.

Yeah,They do kinda look hypo but I don't they are?
Any idea were the crumbly line came from?????
Nice looking animals all the way around.

shannon

Shannon,
When I bought the adults from Scott he didn't have any locality info on them. Sorry wish I knew as I have been asked many times. That Ginter line is awesome and does lean toward hypo. I have a trio of red bulls that are 66% stillwater hypo. The male is real red and the 2 females look more hypo red. I couldn't get good pics so I haven't posted any. I may breed one of them to my stillwater hypo male. Ron
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The Crawl Space

Thanks ron,

I have some adults here that are hypo stillwater x red bulls.The offspring (hypos that is) are just out of this world.I may post some pics later in the year.

later shannon

Scott picked up a loan hatchling male at the last Orlando show and the following year I spied a yearling female with the same coloration at the Mid-Atlantic show and picked it up to pair with Scott's. All I was able to assertain was that she was a TX bull. No supporting info though. We are now on the third generation of selectively breeding these guys but the original pair was pretty sweet from the start.

would be weird that you have third generation animals already?
doesn't make sence?

shannon

Timing of the actual show Scott got the original male might be off. Thinking out loud, the pair that I now have is the F2 generation from the original pair and is CB 2002. If memory serves, the F1 generation also bred in their second year meaning they would have been CB 2000. The riginal female bred the year after I acquired her (1999) and Scott picked up the male as a neonate a year earlier. That that would make it the 1998 Orlando show. I believe 99 was the last Orlando show. Thanks for pointing out the error.

Tony,
That makes more since.The math was just not there for three generations.

Anyways,They look great and I bet the f3s that are produced will be hot.

shannon

I'm betting on it but it'll be high time to outcross. Scott outcrossed an F1 male to an albino and produced some nice reds. The posted pic is again from Marc & Ronda Van Winkle's site but this male is one of the first generation crosses to the albino. Even so it still has nice coloration. Then again all their animals do. Providing a link to their site here as well.

Anyway, my plan is to hold back the best female produced this year and cross her into the Stillwater hypo line. That should be an interesting combination.

North West Herpetoculture

Tony,
The red female just laid her clutch yesterday. I plan on putting her in with my stillwater male. Hopefully one of us will get some nice animals from this breeding. Good luck, Ron
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The Crawl Space

Yeah,
Ginetr did the kingsville cross with the stillwater a few years ago (I have the adults now).
The hypo offspring are amazing to say the least.

shannon

Shannon,
I have a trio from those adults. Awesome looking to say the least. I didn't know any hypos were produced yet. I was under the impression only 66% possible hets were produced. Now I really can't wait to see some offspring from this trio, Ron
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The Crawl Space

Yeah,
I saw two of them last weekend.Fowler has one and ginter has one.They are unreal.
Fowler will be selling any of them that ginter produces this year.

shannon

Fowler is a nice guy, traded him a pair of LA Pines years ago and wish I hadn't now, lol met him at Rainwaters Las Vegas show once. Ron
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The Crawl Space

Funny,
I was at rainwaters show as well.

shannon

So John did the original cross?

But don't think I am. The original cross of Kingsville to Stillwater was done at least 5 or 6 years ago. The only way to get 67% pos hets it to breed 100 deffinate hets together producing some hypos and a bunch of 67% possible hets. If the 67%s are breeding somebody out there bas been breeding hets to make more hypos for the past couple of years and is likely breeding the hypos this year if not together back to the original hets.

Tony,
I bought my trio from John Manzer. KJ had some siblings to my trio. Ginter offered me some reds that were 66% p/h for SW hypo last year. I was unaware that any hypos from that cross were produced until Shannon mentioned it in this thread.

Shannon,
When I was at Rainwaters show you could have found me drooling at Rich Ihles table, lol. Thats when I was mainly keeping boids & monitors. I bought a killer super salmon from Rich. I am good friends with Jon Roylance and never met him even though he was at the show also, lol.
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The Crawl Space

Ron,
Yeah I know john really well also.He was hanging out at my booth most the day looking at hondurans,
I wasn't into boas to much but I did see rich's booth.

shannon

Tony,
I don't know if ginter did the first cross but I think he did.
I looked at the cards he gave me and the animals I have here (dbl-hets) were born in (00).
I know that he produced one hypo red in (02) and one more in (03) and they are stunning.I saw them.

Anyways,He has a big clutch cooking now and then sold me the adults and he just kept the 1 in 16 hypo red .
I had my camera there and didn't even get a pic of the dbl-homo.Maybe I will get one from him this year.
Also I wish he would have put the male back into the femaleas cage after she laid cause she just dumped 15 slugs on me.

shannon

Ouch!