Reptile & Amphibian Forums

1 week ago my dragon suddenly had in the am a pencil point type hole in his back which I felt was an injury; it bled and had no discharge. i treated it well with neosporin after cleaning it and it was stable over the week.

This am, the lesion was profusely producing clear fluid as is a new lesion on his tail. I have started 15mg/kg ampicillin twice a day PO and am applying tobramycin ointment to the lesions. any other thoughts appreciated.
Thanks, Jim

you probably want to get some slides on that right away to find out what it is and I would not be surprised if you ended up getting baytril SubQ to treat it. you really need to find out what it is first however before you start throwing meds at it since the wrong ones can make it worse or even kill your BD.

Good luck and please let us know what it is.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

It is impractical in my area to go to a vet; we are rural and my local vets dont treat exotics. Baytril is a quinolone antibiotic with broad spectrum coverage. Ampicillin similarly covers a fair range of skin bacteria (although not as many). I am a physician and familiar with the coverage of these antibiotics, and from what I have read, they seem safe for reptiles. I can get a quinolone antibiotic.
Thanks for your thoughts.

can you do a CBC and take a culture of the area for testing?

I have never had personal experience in this area, you might want to contact Cheri at the reptileroom. she could probably be of more help as she does lots of research in this area.
Link

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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

I would check for any stray crickets in his cage too, cause those look alot like wounds left on a dragon by a hungry cricket. I can't think of anything else that may leave injuries like that. I would still try and find an exotics vet in your area, even a non-exotics vet should be able to do a wipe on those wounds and get them sent to a lab for testing. With the results, just find an exotics vet to check the results to determine what is causing them. A non-exotics vet may be willing to get answers from others in the right field to find the best treatment.

I am a Registered Vet Tech and I can tell you that need medical attention from someone that knosw how to treat reptiles. Even though ampicillin is a broad spectrum antibiotic and is good for skin problems doesn't mean it is safe for a reptile. Reptiles obviously don't heal the same as people and dogs and cats. Keep in mind if you are over dosing him, which is very possible, you could be doing serious damage to his kidneys and in the long run shorting his life span.

Shannon

The point almost became moot shortly after my posting. The Dragon became, totally limp, and barely responsive nearly immediately. Having discussed this a bit with my resource people locally, I gave a dose of ofloxacin at a recommended dose orally ( quinolones achieve blood levels orally that are equal to IV), and several .5cc oral doses of pedialyte for rehydration therapy.

He remained extremely limp all night and was convinced he would die. However, this morning, after sleeping on a heating pad, he had a bit better color, and I have rehydrated him with a couple cc's more electrolyte solution, and his 2nd dose of ofloxacin and he is holding his head up and actually looks alive again.

The wounds have gelled up, and are not oozing currently.

I am not a veterenarian, but a reasonable physician. I think this approach makes sense and follows the basic guidelines of management of septic shock. I will keep you posted.

Just now he pooped a nice poop and walked over to his bowl and drank a gallon (well maybe that is an exageration) of water, and ate a piece of fruit!

I may have to rename him Lazarus! will keep you posted.

Sorry for all the questions, but not being able to see the whole dragon or history, makes hard to access some other things.

Do you have other pictures of him prior to the lesions showing, like any just before? Also any "now" pictures of his mouth area?

Is he in with any other dragons and also can you tell me his light sets up? type, location, how close he can get to them.

Has he ween eating normally the past week? Has he been treated for anything internally within the past 6 months>

Do you know what nolvasan is? Its a cleaning agent that is often used to debrief wounds, fungi and bacterial infections in animals, it can be used directly on a sore or lesion and is also safe on them. Its also used to clean and rinse internal sores such as those found in the mouth.

Did you know that if you culture the skin of a healthy normal lizard, you have over 60% of chances to grow an Aspergillus or a Penicillium fungus? They are there on them, as a natural part of their dermis, and normally not a problem. Some things can set a colony of them off growing and many can exist under the scales and not be noticable until they have eaten through the dermis and create a scale loss.

You can try a scrapping culture and see if anything growns, but many of them are only detected in a tissue culture and another problem with scrappings is you may grown one that is there normally and not a problem.

I asked the above questions to rule out some other things and when you answer those we can go from there. If it is what I think it is, you are going to have more show up. If you use the nolvasan, it is also going to expose more spots like this, it is not making them, only exposing what is already there.

I not not know what to say about the antibiotics, from what you say it seems to be helping him which could make sense as the areas are probably septic now, but the antibiotics could cause the underlying problem that started this to accelerate and that is what I am concerned about. Reptiles do not have much tissue between the skin and the muscles, therefore it is relatively easy for a fungi to move through the skin to deeper tissues causing infection. But if that is the cause, you need to address that and the antibiotics tend to contribute to the problem in the long run.

I would do come cleaning and debriefing with the Nolvasan and see what happens, if it is what I suspect, it will expose more areas. If it is not that, it will not hurt the dragon and help clean the wounds of bacteria. Let me know the answers above and if you clean and debrief with the Nolvasan, let me know what happens.

Nolvasan can be found in most cattle, feed and seed, stockyard and farm stores.
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www.reptilerooms.com

Thank you. Nolvalsan is chlorhexidine diacetate which is lot like hibiclens and other surgical scrub soaps, actually. I can do that treatment no problem.

As for his mouth, it is totally normal. I cant get a picture today as my digital camera is at home... he cannot get too close to his light, the enclosure temp varies from 70 to 84 degrees and he has a heating pad also under one area of his 50 gal tank. there is also a box fan blowing air out of the tank to improve airflow. he currently is in Carefresh bedding (I know there is great disagreement about bedding types).

I really do think he became septic. whether it was a cricket bit, or a puncture wound is unclear. there is only one point on his log he could have possibly fallen on, but it is not like him to do so.

Never the less, if he survives, he will never have an excess of crickets in his habitat again. right now he really is looking great! he has gulped down a lot of water today and is fairly perky, considering that I could barely tell if he was dead or alive all last evening.

Cricket bites tend to raise up an area before the scale lost, almost like other bug bites they retain fuilds around them. BUt it is possible he got a bite and it infected, harming the other scales around it.

I was looking at the other greyish colors on him and could not tell from those pics if that was part of his normal coloring or not.

There is a terresta fungus that is greyish.... usually not a bad one and easly to clear
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www.reptilerooms.com