Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I knew the curator of small animals at the Sonoran Desert Museum, and he once told me that he conditioned his Leopard Gecko males at the start of the breeding season by giving them each a drop of Linatone (dog coat conditioning vitamin) per week for a few weeks at the start of the breeding season. I wonder if snakes might get a boost if they were given trace amounts of vitamins shortly before the breeding season. There is such a thing as bird Linatone, and birds are metabolically closer to herps than dogs, so.....hmmmmm......

As to general conditioning, I keep my colubrids (boas, too) under full-spectrum light for their photoperiod. I know, I know--snakes don't "need" full-spectrum light, but I see it as a quality of life thing. The captive snake might be compared to a captive person living in a one-car garage. They get fed on a schedule, somone cleans up the waste from time to time, water is kept available, and there is a bed. Technically, their needs have been met, but who would want to live like that? My herps all get the most spacious enclosures I can manage along with light and the occassional rearrangement of cage furniture. Maybe I'm driving them crazy--I can't tell, but it's all on the theory that a little stimulation now and then might be beneficial.

I do something else that I almost never read about: I put my hatchlings on the seasonal cool-down schedule along with the breeders at an early age. I might let them stay feeding for the first winter or even two, depending on species and likely age of first breeding attempt, but they start to get seasonal change at least two seasons before they are to be bred. I never get hesitation in new breeders, or egg problems (these are not Drys I'm talking about, just white-mice colubrids like kings and ratsnakes, so it's not all that much that I don't get breeding problems). I attribute at least some of my relative lack of egg-binding and other first-time breeding problems to the fact that I wait until the snakes are fully mature--five years for Sonora Mt Kings, three years or longer for most other species.

I'd be interested to learn how well Drys breed if they are winter cycled from an early age. I'm not sure they aren't--I haven't read posts on the subject one way or the other, but if Dry owners yield to the temptation (as I do, plenty, with some of my holdbacks that are destined to be pets) to keep growing babies feeding all year, might the Drys be less ready to respond to a winter cycle if the first time they are exposed to it is their breeding year?

By the way, getting baby Drys to eat can be a bit of a challenge--has anyone tried putting a toad or frog in a blender (a DEFROSTED toad--we do not put live animals in blenders), freezing the goo, and thawing a small amount to stain the face of a defrosted feeder mouse as an inducement to get baby Drys to feed? Try scent-rubbing the defrosted feeder on the outside of a room-temperature egg--hen's egg from the supermarket might do.

See? Told you. Too much time to think. A mind is a terrible thing.

I also put mu juvenile Colubrids down for the winter (except Drymarchon), assuming they are in good physical condition and heve been feeding OK. Sometimes I have even "cured" babies that didn't want to feed by brumating them (nothing to lose, right?). They usually wake up hungry and never look back.

Drymarchon are not cycled in the same way as other Colubrids. You don't brumate them, and you actually feed them all winter, although they don't tend to eat quite as much. If you brumate an Indigo or Cribo like any other Colubrid, you will likely end up with a dead snake. Drymarchon are winter breeders, so they are breeding while everyone else is sleeping.

Oh, yeah...as far as the dietary supplements...there may actually be some value to that. One thing that I've found out for sure is that if I feed my Drymarchon a fish once in a while, they have much cleaner sheds and actually seem to be more active on average. I think they must get some sort of oils that they need for shedding from the fish and maybe some sort of vitamin or mineral or other nutrient that they don't get from rats. Plus, they love it. It stinks to high heaven when they poop, but there's a trade-off for everything, right?

What I consider “cycling” is…as Oldherper described, a lot different that other N American colubrids. Lower temps and NTL’s in the upper 50’s to low 60’s, back up to low 80’s for a few hours mid day.

I’m very confident that with couperi and erebennus the light cycles play a big part. When I reduce the photo periods for the first time (usually in late September), from summer to early fall…I always see semen in the water bowls of my big males within a day or 2. Something’s there for sure.

Now…of course the closer to the equator you go the more subtle the photo period variations become, and I think that wet / dry cycles tend to play a bigger part than photo periods and temperature in the tropical subspecies.

As for the juries…guilty as charged, I usually do keep my juvies in a more-or –less “summer” cycle all year for their first 2 years to encourage rapid growth. I have worried that they would have problems adjusting and get respiratory illness during their first real “winter”…but have not seen this.

Also…I have 2 large adult females in my collection that were never exposed to any type of cycling until they were 5-6 years old (I acquired them at this age). They had laid only infertile eggs for the previous owners.

I “cycled” them the first fall that I had them. Neither had any ill-effects, and both laid large, fertile clutches.

I suppose I could have been clearer when I discussed brumating other colubrids. I know that Drys are best cycled by subtle changes in light and minor shifts in temps, but I must have left the impression I would put an Indigo in the refrigerator....

As to the stools metioned by oldherper, I once described Indigo stools as used cat litter churned in a blender and shot out of a syringe--a cup a day.

I forgot that I have had two Black-Tailed Cribo females that were WC gravid, and I incubated the eggs of those in my precious moss, and all went just fine. 100% fertility, too.

the one that works!

I always tell people that my "underwear" method "works for me"
rather than it's the way to do it.

People certainly get success in different ways, and I agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

Personally, I don't like using anything organic because I often end up with bugs. Warm, damp organic matter tends to draw little tiny flying, pain in the ass insects...and molds as well...at least in my experience.

The thing I like about the clean cloth method is when I start to see mold, I just "change the sheets", and I've never ever had any insects on the cloth method.

Contrary to what a lot of people believe, I don't really provide much air circulation to my eggs and it's never been a problem.

I use small, tight, rubbermaids with only 4 airholes (2 on each side). I open the tops once a day which provids a little more airflow. But...in this way the humidity stays in, and there is little to no maintenence. I usually change the cloth twice during incubation, and mist them once a week or so and that's it.

Hey Dean,

I've been trying to reach you regarding Ohio political action stuff. Please let me know if you are interested.

Jamie
-----
Jamie W.

(url)http://rosyboas.tripod.com(/url)

Omega 3's and 6's are both really high in fish, particularly cold water fatty fish. They help keep skin and hair healthy in mammals, and it's all just keratin, right? Plus, the omega 3's boost immune function, and shedding is an immune-mediated activity. Probably does help to get a little boost in their diet, most mammals we raise (including us) get far below the recommended amounts in their diet, so perhaps rodents are on the low end as well.

I have a box turtle who is just in terrible shape - had horrendous NSHP and was kept in very inappropriate conditions. I've been adding *small* amounts from fish and flaxseed oil capsules to her food occasionally to try to help rid of her dead skin that's stuck all over (in addition to upping the humidity, of course). Getting better, slowly...

Alex