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Where to find info on breeding?

crtoon83 Jun 24, 2004 05:00 PM

I have tried several search engines, but I was just trying to find some general information on how you breed ratsnakes. i'm not anywhere near ready to do this...in fact i'm trying to decide if i even want to undertake what i feel would be an enormous project. I mean I have a female licorice stick and a male black rat who carries the genes to reproduce lic sticks, leucistics, with her...i dont remember the exact part of his species ill find out...but im just wondering if either someone has a good website or could tell me the basics of breeding two snakes?

Thanks,
Chris
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

Replies (14)

crtoon83 Jun 24, 2004 06:22 PM

Het. Lic. Stick (Poss. Dbl. Het. Albino) Black Ratsnake
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

lolaophidia Jun 24, 2004 07:05 PM

Check out the care sheets/faqs on Kingsnake (see the link at the top of the page under Forums) colubrid breeding.

http://www.kingsnake.com/colubrid/index.html

That should answer most of your questions. You've got some time to do your research, since I recall your female is only around a year old, right? You definitely want to wait till she grows up (generally based on size but minimum age 18 months to 2 and a half years old), as breeding too small or at a too early age can be dangerous for the female. I usually don't breed my snakes till they're about 3 years of age, but then I don't power feed them to grow faster.
Hope that helps,
Lora

BTW- Black rats of any color variation -brindle, albino, whitesided, leucistic- have the same requirements (think of it as like different colored dogs of the same breed- like a yellow lab and a black lab).

crtoon83 Jun 25, 2004 01:47 PM

I read through the one on kingsnake, and I was wondering about one thing. they said that you feed a lot from august thru december, then drop the temperature and dont feed them at all. does it have to be through this time of the year to go along with their biological clock, or can it be any time of the year? I'm not going to start the one mouse every 2 day feeding, I don't want her to grow that fast, lol. right now she gets one every 4 days, i may go to one every 3.

thanks
chris
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

lolaophidia Jun 25, 2004 09:35 PM

I usually stick with the actual season because I think the length of daylight also triggers the brumation response. I could be wrong, but a lot of snakes do seem to know the season and go off feed then, regardless of the temperatures in their cages. As far as the frequency of feeding, I let the snake complete it's digestion before feeding again. I feed on Tuesdays and clean cages on the weekend. That way I know I'm not disturbing a full snake when I'm moving them to clean the cage. With snakes under a year old, I might feed every 5 days, if they're very active.

Lora

crtoon83 Jun 25, 2004 11:00 PM

mine is just over a year old (1 yr 3 mos) shes 18" htv (where do i find the vent by the way?) she'll fully digest a fuzzy within 4 days...but even if im not looking to breed her do i stil need to do the few months in the fall where i drop the temp and she doesnt eat? even if im taking her out and handling her a few times daily?
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

michaelb Jun 26, 2004 04:11 AM

If you look at the underside toward the tail, there will be a point where the ventral scales go from a single row across the belly to a double row of scales on the base of the tail. That point is where the vent is located.

Whether or not to brumate a snake (cool it for a few months in winter) that is not intended for breeding is a matter of debate. I think most people will say that it doesn't really matter, if you don't intend to breed the snake. But to me personally, if it's a domestic that normally "packs it in" in the wild during the cold season, that's part of his/her biological clock and I think it's best to go ahead and cool the snake. (Besides, it saves you a few bucks by not having to feed her for a few months! ) An exception might be a young snake like yours; if you want it to grow a little faster, keep it warm and maintain feeding. My opinion only.

One other note: Rat snakes are in the same genus as corn snakes, so breeding guidelines are similar for both. If you find breeding info for corns, it should work for most rat snakes.
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MichaelB

crtoon83 Jun 26, 2004 09:06 AM

well the food thing could actually work better for me by keeping on feeind them...i was going to order a 100 count bag of fuzzies and i've been told hteyll last 9 months before they're no good, and 2 snakes eating one mouse every 4 days that'll last about 6 months or so. so i wont have any gone to waste. should i maybe go on trying to feed them but if htey refuse food drop the temp nad stop it? Is this a hibernation type thing that they'll go into or what? If so can I still take them out and handle them a few times a day?
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

lolaophidia Jun 26, 2004 10:11 AM

Snakes don't really hibernate, they brumate. Here's the entry from the Kingsnake glossary of commonly used terms that explains it much better than I could have...

Brumation: “cooling” a herp by lowering its temperature for usually 2 to 4 months to approximate conditions during the winter period. This is not the true hibernation of mammals. Brumation triggers the physical changes that stimulate egg production in females, sperm production in males and the breeding response necessary for successful captive propagation.

When you cool a snake, it should be left alone- not handled. They're sluggish until they come back up to temperature and if you handle them, you're warming them up. This is a period of metabolic rest, so no food (they can't digest when they're cooled and need to have a clear system before you cool them), no handling, and minimal disturbance. Wild snakes usually find a dark hole somewhere underground that will protect them from freezing temperatures. They burn very few calories during their rest because they are not active during this time. When the snakes warm back up in the spring, they begin feeding, growing, shedding, their reproductive juices start flowing, and they start looking for mates. With young or non breeding snakes, I'll usually feed them through the winter at normal temps, unless they quit feeding of their own accord.
Lora

crtoon83 Jun 26, 2004 02:04 PM

awesome. i guess i need to look around a little more on this website..it seems to have much more useful information on it than just the forums. i'll probably see if i can keep them eating this winter just so the mice dont go bad, lol. but thanks for your advice! -Chris
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

michaelb Jun 27, 2004 04:37 AM

Great post above from Lora. Sounds like you like to handle your snakes, so it's important to know that they should be considered off limits during brumation and you won't be able to handle them at all, much less several times a day.
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MichaelB

Robert Seib Jun 29, 2004 10:19 AM

I have a caresheet posted on my website which provides details of how to care for them. I focus a lot on temperatures.

http://www.easternindigo.com/mandarincaresheet.html

If you follow the temperature regimen that I outline, just start introducing males to females in May. It is really obvious when females are receptive. The male will normally crawl into the hide box with her and remain at least overnight, or for two nights. Repeat this process until the female obviously does not want the male in her cage. It will be obvious.

You can also double clutch some of your mandarins. About 50% of my animals double clutch. The other individuals never do.

Hope this helps.
Link

lolaophidia Jul 01, 2004 07:15 PM

BTW- the Mandarin pair I got from you (about a year and a half ago) are doing great! The female is growing pretty slowly, but will hopefully breed next spring. I might have some Leopard eggs next spring too. Hope all your projects are going well.
Lora
Attached are pics of the pair- do you recognize the big pale guy? He's a stunner!
Female



Male

Robert Seib Jul 02, 2004 11:11 AM

Hi Lora,

Your snakes are truely beautiful, especially the male. He is so bright yellow and light.
Here is a question for you. I like the way you were able to place the four photos in the post and label males and females. Can you tell me (us) how do to that?

Thank you, robert.

robert@easternindigo.com
Link

lolaophidia Jul 02, 2004 11:37 AM

Thanks Robert! To put multiple images into a post, type the title of the pic then space down and add the HTML for the image. You use the square bracket [ img ] close square bracket, without the spaces, put the url for your image - I copy and past from properties, then square bracket [ / img ] close square bracket, without the spaces, repeat for each image.
Did that make sense? There's a link under the Message box when you reply to a message (Tools and Toys) that actually shows you what it should look like. It does save having post multiple times to post multiple pics from the gallery.
Lora

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