Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ive been looking at California Kings for awhile now, and want to get one. Ive owned other reptiles before, but never a snake. I have been reading care sheets on them, but are there any books that you suggest? Also will I be able to use the tank I have now, its deminsions are 24L x 12W x 16H.

yes a cal king is a good choice.i buy most of my books from half.com (a service of ebay,no bidding just listed prices) there used and even with shipping cost they are usually less than half price of retail.have fun and be fore warned:snakes are like potato chips,can't have just one.

I think Cali kings are a 'perfect' choice for a first snake. Cali kings for the most part settle down nicely and have a good disposition. They might musk,bite,and squirm a little when hatchlings but get out of that after a few handles.Some king snakes even seem to enjoy being handled. They are hearty eatters in the right conditions and eagerly accept frozen/thawed or prekilled rodents. I keep my year old cali king is a 29 gallon tank with aspen subtrate a few hide boxes,a plastic hanging plant and some drift wood for climbing.

I keep the temp around 80-82 degrees on the warm side with the basking spot of about 87 degrees.The cool side is a few degrees cooler around 76 degrees. Night time can drop to about 76 degrees. They are generally a relatively small snake usually reaching lengths of 3 1/2 to 4 feet but may get over 5 feet. The parents of my king are a 5 foot and 4 1/2 foot snakes.

They come in a lot of different colors/morphs and are one of the most common captive bred snakes next to the corn snake.I would have to say king snakes are the best first snake for anyone to own. Corn snakes are kept similar to king snakes and come with even more morphs of colors. They are roughly about the same size length wise but for the most part king snakes are more robust. Some corn snakes can be picky eatters when hatchlings but will feed well as adults although IMO definately not as aggressive as a king.

My king would eat every day if I let it but of course I don't. Some weeks I will feed him twice a week but most of the time I will feed him either three fuzzies or two hoppers every 7 days. There are days though that I will feed him two hoppers and 3 days later after he craps he will be in hunt mode looking around his tank,smelling and tasting the area of the tank the mice were at.( I place paper towel down in my tank before feeding my snake to be sure he doesn't swallow any subtrate.)

Since this is to be a first snake I'll try and use that as a perspective in terms of cals. My thoughts on Cals is that they make a great 2nd or 3rd snake once someone has some snake experience under their belt, but I am hesitant to recommend them as a first. First the pros- Cal kings are very hardy and reasonably forgiving of temporary husbandry mistakes. They are very attractive and are straight forward in their breeding if breeding is of interest to you. They are voracious feeders once they are started on pinkies as hatchlings. Most settle down and are handleable after about a year in age with regular handling. They are a very managable size and will never reach a problematic size. They are common and generally inexpensive so if it doesn't work out you are not out much $ and there is usually someone willing to take it off your hands. And they are often active during the day and will move around the cage as opposed to laying in a coil in one spot for days on end (however keep in mind they are looking for a way out, more on that below)

Now the cons- Young cals and snakes that have not been handled do not handle well. They thrash and musk and will at times bite. Most will calm down over time with work but some do not. I have 2 kings, my male is one of the most calm and handleable snakes I've ever had. He will even come up and gently take a rat out of my hand for feeding. My female on the other hand will still coil and rattle when the cage is opened and will still thrash and musk with handling. She will even take a hunk out of my thumb more often than I can count when handled although her biting is more feeding in nature than defensiveness or aggression. She is 5 years old and last summer I made a determined effort to tame her and handled her every single day for over 6 months. I got her so she USUALLY did not bite or musk but she was always unpredictable. Most kings fall in somewhere between these two.

Another con of kings is they are escape artists. They will spend their waking hours constantly looking for a way out. If there is an opening they will find it and once they are out they will be gone. They can move very fast when they want and even if they look like they are just leisurely slithering along they can bolt and be gone in seconds. Also, kings can not be caged with other snakes as they will eat each other.

For a 1st time snake I would encourage you to also research cornsnakes and captive bred - repeat captive bred (not wild caught or captive hatched/farm raised) ball pythons or possibly rosey boas. They have many of the same advantages but are not as prone to thrashing/musking/biting as hatchling kings. that's my $0.2, hope it helps. Not trying to turn you off to kings, there are many reasons they are so popular but I think there are other snakes that deserve consideration as a first.

Excellent post. That sums up my experience very well. My Cal King was my second snake and if he were my first, I probably would not have gotten another. He doesn't musk but he does like to bite me. Other than that, I have no issues with him. Feeding and maintenance is very simple. I just don't like my fingers being on the menu.

My first snake was a Gray-Banded King. He's a great snake but they can be big time problem feeders. Luckily, mine has no issues eating frozen pinkies.

Great points! One thing also almost ALL snakes are escape artists! My yearling yellow rat just pulled an escape on me about two weeks ago and no sign of him at all. I am still hopefull he will turn up but my hope is slim. Corn snakes will also spend hours looking for ways out just like a king. Most corns will tend to be more active when no one is around and at night time.

I diagree with ball pythons being a starter snake. While they handle fairly well they are known to be problem feeders and are not as forgiving in husbandry mistakes.I have had a ball python who had the proper enviorment fast for over 5 months.She finally ate two large mice then again fasted for another 4months. Now most people who have had some knowledge of snake keeping would know that ball pythons WILL fast for months at a time regardless of how well you have an enclosure set up for them but as long as they maintain good weight and are healthy this shouldn't be seen as a major concern unless it lasts longer and the snakes health starts to decline. Now someone who has never had a snake before might try to force feed the snake after a month or so and stress the snake out even more. Ball pythons require higher then normal humidity which can be difficult for beginners to maintain also. I just never seen ball pythons as a good snake to start off with.

Now Rosey boas are a great snake to start off with also and won't try to pull an escape as fast as a king,corn or rat snake.I definately think kings,corns and rats are some of the best escape artists in the snake world. Even an expert snake keeper will still lose one of these snakes every once in awhile.

Sullman, don't give up on your escaped snake just yet. When I fist got my easter king, had him about 6 months, he escaped. Tore the house apart tring to find him, no luck I figured he got out of the house, somehow. About 4 months later my wife was vacuming the carpet at the other end of the house and she thought there was a air pocket under the carpet, kept rolling the vacume over it trying to get it out, then it moved. It had been so long that I didn't think it might be my snake. Pulled back the carpet and there he was fat and healthy. Don't know what he ate. Don't know how he got under the carpet with the carpet strips that had all them little nails sticking up, but he did. That was almost 20yrs ago, still have him.

I raised his since he was a hatchling and when he escaped I was a little heart broken. Raising something since it was very young and watching it grow then have it escape is pretty hard. Sad part is it was my own fault he escaped. I had him in a 29 gallon with the clamp locks and two rocks at each end to ensure that he couldn't get one. I don't get home till 1am from work so I change his water,handle him for a little bit and put him back. When I secured the lid I must not have had the lid on all the way and he made his way out ....

I have my king in one of those 'critter cages' that have the clips that already lock the lids in place. Nice tanks and I picked up a 29 gallon one for 39 dollars which is REAL cheap as I see a lot of pet stores selling 29's for like 69 dollars plus! The pet store I bought it from mostly sells just pet supplies and they just opened up so they are keeping prices really low right now on a lot of stuff. They had 40 gallon breeders for 49 dollars but were sold out when I went.

Anyway my wife seen I was looking for 'Mufasa' every day and bought me the motley corn for fathers day. The corn is pretty much an adult(no hatching date was given when she bought her)but she was never bred(at least thats what I was told when I called the pet store)..anyway she is about 34" long..don't know how old she is and don't know if she will get much bigger or not. She is fairly thick already and eats prekilled adult mice.

I haven't given up searching for my yellow. One good thing is my step kids are going away for the summer to see their biological father so the house will be quite. We are putting the dogs in a kennel since we are going on vacation this week so I am hoping the house being all nice and silent will bring him out. I plan to put some flour on the floor by the walls to see if he is around. I'm gonna place a water dish out with some flour around that also and around the tank where I have a pet mouse(was a little hopper intended for food since they didn't have any more frozen mice..but this little thing was eatting out of my hands and I felt bad for him and the kids begged to keep him...lol)

A friend of mine had a nelsons milk escape. What he did was cut a small hole in a shoebox just barely big enough for the snake to squeeze through, put a dead mouse in it taped the top to the box. Everyday he came home from work he would through the mouseout and put anew one in. One day he came home checked the box ther the snake was trying to get back out through the hole but the lump in his belly prevented him from getting back out. THE SNAKE WAS DRAGGING THE BOX ACROSS THE FLOOR. It took about 2 weeks. Hope you find your's soon.

Hey thats a GREAT idea! I never had thought of that and I am going to give it a try as it can't hurt to try! The only problem is my house is pretty big so I really have no idea where he went off to. He is thin enough to have entered my vents so he could be anywhere in the entire house but I think he stayed downstairs or went into the basement. Maybe I'll try both spots...one week in the basement and one week downstairs and just alternate. What I will do is put is favorite hide in the shoe box also..maybe keep him in there I made a coconut hide for him and he loved it....funny they sell those in stores for like 2.99 to 3.99 when I made TWO of them for the buck it cost for the coconut...lol

You make some good points on BPs. I made a couple assumptions from the original post (ok, I know what assume spells lol )
Since DiSoRdeR is experienced in herps to some degree, just new to snakes, and made a responsible choice in researching calis from experienced people before going out and getting one, I made an assumption that he would also research the husbandry needs any other species prior to purchase. As you stated in your points about BPs, those are husbandry issues and they should be noted in a reasonable research. The points made about the kings were to a large degree about their temperment. In my post I also suggested looking into those species, not necessarily going out and getting one with just my recommendation behind it.

I guess one should never make assumptions and those are the things that should be pointed out and that is why these forums are such a great place to learn.

Yes rats are escape artists too. There is an old house of mine that probably has a 6ft Texas rat (it was a juvie when it got out) in it to this day. It was an old house and even though I didn't see any, it probably has plenty of mice in the basement. I would occasionally find sheds here and there so I know it was still around. I found one shed right there in the snake room but never found the snake.

A cousin of mine had an entire clutch of baby yellow rats get out. They would occasionally come across one but most are free and clear. That was an old crappy house with plenty of mice so who knows how they did. That was well over 20 years ago so I don't know if any would have survived that long or not. If they got out of the house the Iowa winter probably would have done them in.

Depending on a variety of conditions, colubrid hatchlings poop about 2-3 days after feeding, and adults usually within 5-7 days after eating. My borneo short-tail poops about every 4 months or so, which do you think makes cage cleaning easier??????

I second that one.

My year old cali will poop about 3-4 days after he eats and depending on the size of the meal depends on how much poop I am cleaning..lol. The thing is after he poops he is very eager to eat again. Like I said kept under the right conditions these guys have a voracious appitite!! My rat snake didn't eat NEARLY as much as the king. My year old rat would eat MAYBE 2 mice a month even though I offered him every week. Kings would eat every 3 days EASY. When my yellow rat wouldn't accept the mouse I would just feed it to the king cause he would be watching,have his head up looking at me flicking his tongue. These guys KNOW when prey is around! With my king I'll just throw the mouse in his enclosure(on some paper towel so he doesn't swallow any subtrate)and he comes right out of his hide and eats. My corn on the other hand I have to remove from the hide or under the subtrate and then 20 mins later she'll eat...but after a half hour or so I will take the mouse out. I don't want the thing to have rigormortis setting in or anything...lol

I Researched about bearded dragon for 2 months prior to getting one. From reading care sheets, forums, web sites, and several books. I will do the same for a King, I will not get one till I feel confident about it. I do have one question though, is a 27 gallon enclosure a good size for a king? The dimensions are 29Lx14Wx16H

A good rule of thumb for snakes is that the length of the snake should not be longer than one long side plus one short side of the cage. so the dimensions you state should last for a few years if not longer. My adults are both right at 41/2 feet. Kings do move around quite a bit and a good sized cage is fine as long as there are hides on both warm and cool ends. Juviniles especially need tight hides if they are in a cage that is big relative to their size. Kings are not big climbers so height is not that much of an issue. I got mine a tall cage and some climbing branches and all she did was hide under it when she was inactive and slithered around it like it was a nuisance when she was active.

Take a look at rearfangs post up above, I think it is under the chart discussion. He brings up a great point, there are other kings that may work better for you than a cal king. Cals and speckleds are probably the most jumpy while the kings from the east US (easterns, floridas, bloched) are often reported to be more calm. Also, the people with the Mexican blacks almost become fanatical in their love for them.

Check out Keith Hillson's King of Kings website for some great info and awesome pics of easterns. Also look for some of Brandon's pics of south floridas on this forum and you'll be amazed.

I have not owned any kings other than cals but my main criticism is their temperment so if the other kings are calmer they would be a real prize.