Reptile & Amphibian Forums

found on 118 3 miles apart on Tuesday, June 15, 2004.

Nice photos Mike but disagree about the one you call "orange" The real orange ones [maybe rust color would be more appropriate] are up near Balmorhea and on Boy Scout Road. These River Road subocs you guys are calling orange,---well I just don't see it. I realize the photos may not be totally accurate but most of us "oldies" have seen 100's of subocs and the true orange ones are found in the Davis'.
If you're going to show suboc photos on the alterna forum then how about a photo of your female lep? They're a LOT more interesting!!!

Mike, that is an orange suboc. It may be a different shade of orange but yes it is orange. They vary out west even within the same local. Nice pics.

what I'm doing wrong to get the female lep pic on . When i try to upload the photo ( my disk ) it comes up with already uploaded and or needs a name change. It is MVC/010 but shows a pic of the western massasagua we found 2 years ago in Russell Kan. I will send it to you through e-mail. The pics of subocs are not totally accurate because: #1, my camera is really a camera for landscapes ( those freaking Sony , Dinosaurs, of the lousey 2 point megs mavicas floppy disk ), #2, both subocs are going in sheds, blah, blah , blah. Now with the cooler than seasonable temps in the west Texas( here in kan. as well ), I KNOW that as of last week it would be " maybe " unwise to even try the Davis so far this year. Are you sure that you are not color blind ? The orange looks orange to me but maybe not SUNKIST orange. Huh ? LOL !

Chambo ( the washed up old timer and Rambo wannabe, formerly the fact and number guy )

The majority of "orange subocs " are from the Davis Mtns. However, I have seen very orange colored specimens from both the river road and hwy 118. Several years ago, Joe Blackburn collected a number of subocs that were steel-platinum gray in base color, basically, the same color as a "light - phased" altera. He collected them on the highway from Ojinaja, Chih. to Chihuahua City, Chih., Mexico. These were on exhibit at the private reptile exhibit, owned and operated by the best Mexican reptile collector there was or ever will be---Gerry Tordt. He is the man who discovered the Bolson Tortoise, brought back the first specimens of three willardi subspecies. He grew up in Mexico, rode with Villa for a time and forgot more about Mexican herps and collecting then we will ever know. Gerry also had a STRIPED subocs---had stripes that ran the entire length of the snake dorsally. Earl Turner---one of the real old guys

sorry for not getting back privatly on that " other " thing. I had heard some stuff on what you posted but not near as much as you said. Wow ! A pinstripe or striped period would be outragious in a suboc. I have collected some with a faint to almost lacking saddles( H's > ? ) but not lacking completely. Now with a Mr. Kevin M. years ago we had found several sobocs with a almost lacked pattern and kind of olive green color on the Fresno Ranch loop and called them blonds ? I think he tried to breed these as far as I think we had a female some place here but the male was EXTREAMLY aggressive and really tore up the female. I don't really know what ever happened to these snakes. As others has said, that Fresno ranch area at one time was an hot spot for blonds and all subocs. I seem to remember a guy at the resturant at Lajitas in the mid 80ties that just hunted there ONLY subocs. He told us he didn't care about alterna or anything else. Just subocs.

Chambo

Hey Chambo,

Thanks for the pics and commentary too!! That is an orange one in my opinion too, although I agree that the most orange ones I have ever seen come from the Davis.

I posted below re: mercury!!! Thanks for kicking back some great memories for me. Cheers, H