Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Back on 11/22/01, The province of Irian Jaya was formally changed to West Papua. This new name largely still unused in western reference to what used to be Irian Jaya. But that doesn't surprise me as the USA tends to not worry about name changes of countries that do not politically matter to us. So what do you guys think the IJ carpet should be now known as?
I have been aware of this change for some time now but it seems that even well known importers both in the USA and abroad are still referring to these pythons as Irian Jaya Carpets. So I have gone along with them strictly in an attempt to maintain some conformity. After all, the last thing we need is even more common names in the trade. But I began to wonder, when is the change in usage going to begin and is it going to take to make that happen? If a few of us adopt the new name of perhaps "West Papuan Carpet Python" or simply "Papuan Carpet Python" and begin using it, will it in turn influence other to follow suit?
So what do you guys think should be used and how do we begin?

-Yasser
Spitfire Reptiles

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Personally I like New Guinea carpet. When I visited some 10 years ago, most called it New Guinea (the entire island) even the Indonesian half. But like you said it is just a common name. If enough people start using any vernacular then it then becomes a common name. So why not "cool looking snake". Enough people use it.... LOL

Matt

The only issue I have with calling them "New Guinea" carpets is that there is speculation that there is another race from the SE in Papua New Guinea that is quite different. They show more similarity to Jungles and coastals than any IJ or Northwestern. So there is a good chance that there is not just one form of Carpet in New Guinea. There is an IJ (West Papuan) form that we are all familiar with and then there's these wierd Papua New Guinea ones as well.

-Yasser
Spitfire Reptiles

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Have you seen any pictures of the eastern "subspecies"? "separate species"? Know of any online?

Do you know anything about New Guinea (eastern half of the island) and their export policy? They must be more stringent than Indonesia, since we have not seen them in the trade. Indonesia will export anything and everything that they can for money. Or is this other carpet you speak of relatively uncommon?

Matt

Matt, It is VERY uncommon in captivity and pics very hard to find.They are certainly protected from export in Papua New Guinea,although these laws never stop anything. None are here in the USA though.
But Mark O'shea and a few others have acknowledged that there are two distinct populations in New Guinea.
But my only argument is why continue to use the name that is now not correct? Because we are resistant to change?
While it is only a common name, I still think the names used should represent some geographical accuracy. Besides, the argument over their scientific name is still up in the air as well.

-Yasser
Spitfire Reptiles

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Should have included this before. I doubt there is need to change the most common "common" name. We still use Ceylonese (not Sri Lanka) and Burmese (not Myanmar). Siamese cats are not referred to as Thai cats now. Thought I would stir the pot a bit.

Matt

Just use there latin name, Common names are always different just look at the ball or royal python. I mean in carpets alone there are many different names all depends where you are and what your told.

The problem with using the latin name is there is two perhaps even three diferent latin names that are the subject of much debate at this time. Some say they're Morelia spilota variegata or M.s. harrisoni and some even go so far as to elevate them to their own species and call them M. harrisoni.

-Yasser
Spitfire Reptiles

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I am all for use of the scientific latin names. I grew up in the Marshall Islands and learned my fish that way at an early age. Though with fish they are fairly easy to distinguish. As Yasser mentions, there are not even exact latin names in use. There are as many accepted latin names as common names. THough in the scientific realm, whichever name occured first (chronologically) is the correct one. But I think there is still arguments on where one species ends and another begins. Then throw into the mix crossbreeding and grades. It just gets into a nasty mess. I have what we would call an IJ, but honestly I don't know what the correct scientific name would even be. Heck I don't even know if it is identical to those found on West Papua (Irian Jaya) or if I have a mutt.

Matt

Ok, I still say just use the latin name, no one really knows latin names and they get confused so easily now, we should use them more often.

Just as Morelia Virdis is still known as the Chondro Python to all Chondro Heads. This will never change

John