Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First I am very excited that they were "doin' it". I guess that means their basic needs are being met adequately and that they are possibly a compatible pair. Second, I'm also a little shocked that they were "doin' it" since I just got them as babies last fall. I have always suspected the larger, darker one was female and the smaller, lighter one was male, and now I am almost positive. Anyway, the female is around 40-43 inches and if I had to guess, roughly one year (got her last September at 14" long) and the male is about 34-36" and probably a little younger (got him last November at 14" long). Is it possible that they are sexually mature at this young age and relatively small size? I know many of the smaller species have reproduced at under one year, but what about the bigger species like waters, albigs, lacies, niles, crocs etc? Is this juvenile behavior or could it be actual reproductive sex? Either way, I am happy and excited that this even happened. Any and all comments are greatly welcomed and appreciated! Billy

and is not the pic of them copulating - just hanging out together. Billy

Hi Billy,

You'll probably hear this from many others as well, but the only way of knowing whether or not what you were seeing was actually sexual copulation will be the appearance of eggs.

Monitors do what appears to be 'mating' for several reasons, an important one being a display of dominance. I've seen this between two known males and have read of it (on this forum and others) occurring with female on female, female on male and even male on female without the female being receptive (in which case it isn't breeding).

If they lay eggs they were mating, if not it may be a dominance issue. Anyways I mentioned this before and was met with many argueing that they cant or dont instead they wait until usually 18 months. I have living proof of albigs laying eggs at between 6-7 months of age, Sobeks mother was 6-7 months old when she layed her first clutch. Not only that Sobek cycled at 6 months, 12 months and 18 months, the latter being the time that she couldnt absorb those eggs. Ive heard of this with albigs many times, from 6-8 months of age, even those small (2-3 ft long) crosses that Rob Faust keeps (Sobeks mother). Not sure with waters but Im sure its very very possible, as most reptiles can mature even in not so good conditions at 6 months to a year, after all its for survival, next year may not be so good.
Those people in the bearded dragon forum tried to say that beardies dont mature and shouldnt be bred until 18 months or later, but mine dont know that, they lay eggs every 3-4 weeks like clockwork from well under a year old, and they are also much bigger than they are supposed to be at that age (according to the "experts on that forum", of course the one hatchling I kept is 14 inches long at 2.5 months old).
It could be possible, very possible, of course my one friends waters at that size (39-43 inches) were male (found out after I popped them),but one was copulating with the other constantly for 4 days, then they stopped, but that was prison sex.

I'm going to go off topic a bit, SHvar, because something you've said has piqued my curiousity.

Don't take this the wrong way, for it isn't an attack.

In your post, you said the following:

"Not only that Sobek cycled at 6 months, 12 months and 18 months, the latter being the time that she couldnt absorb those eggs."

Most of us clearly remember you referring to Sobek as a male up until the time she became eggbound (at 18 months). If you noticed her cycling at 6 months, then again at 12 months, why did you continue to refer to her as a male?

Seriously, this isn't meant as an attack. I referred to my first monitor as a female until he popped hemipenes (funnily enough, not long after FR posted that I should reconsider his gender) so getting a monitor's gender wrongly when you have nothing to compare it to isn't a crime.

But, I can look back and remember when it happened (hindsight is 20/20), I have enough pictures also to see the difference and tell after I was sure. No, at that time I wasnt sure of her sex, but after learning and being able to make comparisons I can even tell you when another past female BT cycled by memory. It took learning by mistakes, and experience as well getting a male that according to Rob Faust was a definite female for 2 years, after all I discovered his true sex after getting him. Its not a crime mistaking their sex, but when you learn some things the hard way they stick in your head forever. I can look back and tell you when she cycled by learning to recognize it the hard way, just as I can tell when my female beardies cycle, by looking at them.
After enough mistakes I can acurately sex albigs. Yes it also took alot of help from FR to understand some of those things. I even properly sexed one of FRs cape banded at 18 inches long that was sold by another well known dealer as a female, he was male. No offense taken, but looking back I can remember when she cycled by just looking at her. Its nice to be able to learn, oh well thats how it happens sometimes.

np