Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know what two snakes made these striped tricolor kings? Would they be albe to breed? Here is a link to the site selling them.

http://www.aaareptilesupply.com/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=A-HYPAINT&Category_Code=CH_HYBRID

They are beautiful!

I can't remember what they used, but I called with the same question. Call and just ask. It would take you 10 yrs. to replicate it so I don't see any harm in them telling you. I believe they were having some infertility problems with them.
Chow

I though interspecies hybrids couldnt breed, like mules (except for the one in 40K or whatever). I saw another post talking about f2 so they must be able to breed then, right? Do they only breed back to hybrids, or can they breed with either species that fathered them?

The painted kings could easily be a hybrid (integrade) between different subspecies of Lampropeltis. AAA reptile has been asked to "divulge their secrets" but will not do so. So while I, like everyone else, admires the "painted king" I don't care for the company that created them.

As far as breeding the hybrids (or integrades) I believe that there CAN be some infertility problems, but that the ones who do breed usually produce very beautiful offspring.

I myself have one hybrid (well, I will have a creamsicle at the end of August, so that will make two... both really integrades, as one is a Lampropeltis cross and the other is a Elaphe aka Pantherophis cross.). I hope to try to cross my King/Milk cross with my Corn/Rat cross and see what becomes of them. I might also see if I can cross my King/Milk to a pure corn that is Amelanistic... just to see what sort of combination I can get.

But I don't have much patience and I think it takes more than I have to actually produce hybrids, so while I'm fascinated with them, and would like to produce them, who knows if I ever will!
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~Sasheena

Wouldnt the co be crazy to say how they got the painted kings? I mean they want to sell them and continue to sell them. Since you cant put a patent on hybrids they are better off not telling anyone and just selling them.
Lia

If all you want is to make a profit, then that is fine. However I tend to prefer the company of those who like to share their accomplishments. One of the biggest admonitions I have heard is to not make hybrids for the sake of doing it... if it's been done and is as ugly as a dog, even the F2's then I would want to know and not make that mistake. I believe that the sharing of what is being done is not likely to make a dent in the market share that AAA reptiles receives. For example, if in fact it is the combination of a spotted sinaloan x california king, crossed to a Thayeri crossed to a pyro (for example) then your average person into herps and wanting to make that combination would first have to have a Thayeri, Sinaloan, Cal King, and Pyro.... cross them, grow them up, breed them, and then discover that the combination of colors and pattern makes it unlikely to ever get the same pattern again. The Painted King, while very beautiful is the same (to my way of thinking) as giving a name to a "morph" with a complete constituency of ONE snake. Chances of duplicating that is very unlikely! They are bound to get more beautiful snakes, but not as likely to get the exact same combination again. I guess that is why they "bother" me so much... they slap all kinds of cutesy names on a bunch of "morphs" that are created by hybridization, and one has only to look at HDean's site to know that the variability in these multiple hybrids is quite extreme.

For my part, I like to share, and if/when I ever hybridize my snakes, I plan on sharing the entire process with the members of this forum. What fun is there in sharing a triumph if there is nobody you can share it with because you're afraid someone will steal your secret recipe? nah.

>>Wouldnt the co be crazy to say how they got the painted kings? I mean they want to sell them and continue to sell them. Since you cant put a patent on hybrids they are better off not telling anyone and just selling them.
>> Lia
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~Sasheena

see... half of what I said in my previous post was negated by the another response about "Imperial Pueblans".... they are beautiful! Glad that there are those who feel able to share.

Hope my Creamsicle/Jurassic combo next year WORKS... and yields up pretty babies.
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~Sasheena

I understand your point but they are a business not someone that posts on this forum to share info. By the way what is Hdeans site?
I love that guys hybrids.
Thanks.
Lia

Actually they used to post all sorts of pictures/advertisements to this discussion forum, but would never answer any questions... I guess that is what got my nose out of joint. Here's the link I believe for HDEAN's website.

>>I understand your point but they are a business not someone that posts on this forum to share info. By the way what is Hdeans site?
>> I love that guys hybrids.
>> Thanks.
>> Lia
Henry's House of Snakes

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~Sasheena

Thanks.
Lia

With regard to hybrid fertility, I have what was sold to me as an F2 of a corn x bull cross. She's growing about as fast as a corn does and lays a small number of huge eggs (about as long as my forefinger). She breeds ok but about half of her eggs are bad. This spring I bred her to an amelanistic corn. Of 5 eggs laid, only 2 were good. So far, I've gotten only 4 babies from her but I have a son who has mated his sister, an amelanistic corn and a bullsnake. He and his sister are fully fertile. Some of the progeny, particularly with the amel corn, have been really pretty.

I haven't had a chance to introduce kingsnake genes into the mix yet, but I suspect getting the snakes to breed will be a lot more of a problem than egg viability or progeny fertility.

Bigfoot

Where did you hear they were having fertility problems????

AAA Reptile didn't produce the painted kings. Jim at California Reptile Company produced them years ago when he worked at Vision caging. We market them as Imperial Pueblans.
They are a super fertile animal, there are no fertility problems with them. If anyone made the IRBA show today we had a lot of them available. They are a banana king X apricot pueblan. No big trade secret. The trick is creating the first breeding. After that all the resulting F1's and now F2's will breed each other with no problem, and also breed any just about any other species of colubrid with no problems. Also all the offspring are 66% poss het for albino and Jim produced an albino of that red striped "Painted" king. It is awesome.
A new web page will be up soon with a ton of pictures of the incredible variety of pattern and color these guys produce and the complete history. A clutch of Imperial pueblans will outdo a clutch of thayeri hands down in the color and pattern department. If anyone is interested try to make the San Diego IRBA show tomorrow. Prices range from $150 to $700 based on color/pattern for individuals, trios are available as well. Thanks.

Ken

Sorry, unalbe to make the show. I will however be able to make the september show in Anaheim, will you have any more for that one?