Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is in regards to a bill in NY to ban exotic pets. This thread is in the ball python forum and should be everywhere possible. Please read this past and do your part to help out.

Reptile Ban
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Rob Talkington

Well, I let him know how I feel about it, of course in a very polite way. I don't live in NY, but someday this could be the case everywhere. I do understand some of the thought behind it, because they probably have shelters filled with exotics like huge boas and pythons to crocodilians and spiders, and some of the smaller herps too, due to people just not caring, and not knowing what they were getting into when they bought the animal. I just asked that isn't there a way around that somehow? Many, many people are very knowledgeable about the species they keep, and why should they be made to suffer because of the other irresponsible ones? I can tell you there are probably more people out there who don't know how to take care of their dogs or cats, but watch Animal Planet, they have like 200 of them before they are taken. I just don't think this is fair, and I let him know that. Anyone comes up with any ideas about how to let those that know what they are doing, keep their animals, you might want to pass the message along to his office, but I am not sure that is possible. Let's hope this ban doesn't pass.

they have tried to pass laws like this all over the country. people become complacent because they think it can never happen. The fact is it does happen and the media helps push it along. Last night on an old Cosby, the entire hosehold was in an uproar because they found a 6" garter snake in the house, pllllllleasssssse!!!! we need to stand up and show law makers and others we are responsable and owning herps is good and fun.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

i think that Governor Patacki needs to have a cute lil bearded dragon curl up by hima nd fall asleep like my sweet lil puff does...then say that they are not ok to keep
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my animals
1.0.1 leopard gecko (goliath, gebco)
0.1 hypo red bearded dragon (puff the magic dragon)
0.0.1 schnieder's skink (ghandi)
0.1 white's dumpy treefrog (un-named)
1.0 house gecko (geico)
0.0.1 red eared slider (carl)
0.0.1 fire belly toad (escaped..)
1.0 lop eared wabbit (oreo)
1.1.too many to count, brown recluse (i think)
the rest of the animals in the hizouse
1.0 westie puppy (gabriel)
1.0 plain ol' outdoor alley cat (joey)
0.1 indoor rag doll kitty (tinkerbell)
2.0 goulian finchs

The fact remains....people are irresponsible. How many irresponsible dog owners are out there.??? Millions!!! Animal Planet has FOUR programs involving irresponsible dog (and other animals) owners. (Animal Cops: Miami, Houston, Detroit; Animal Precinct: New York.)

I think it is the same as gun ownership. Their are plenty of people who own guns responsibly. However, the ones who don't, cause more problems than the good caused by responsible ones (if you could follow that).

I think the solution should be that you have to have a "license" to own certain species to PROVE you know what you are doing. Species included: Lagre snakes (reaching >10')and Large Lizards (including Iguanas(reaching >3').

Why can't we just do that? I know it seems like a pain, but I think we could also stop a lot of the sufferring of these animals due to inadequate homes. Let's be real about our hobby. There are a lot of people who just like to own the big snakes/lizards for shock value and to be odd. (I am not referring to anyone here at all!)

I met a woman in the pet store yesterday who didn't even know what kind of frog she had. She was buying crickets (same as me) and wasn't even sure if it was a tree frog or an aquatic frog!!!!!! She told me how cute he was (repeatedly) and how cute his home was (I wonder if he would agree)! It sickened me. I told her she should find out what he was so she could take better care of him....she just glossed over it and told me more about the vines she had in there for him. uggghhhh!! It seemed more like a piece of furniture than a living thing.

This is what goes on in our society. The thought of pets (some of the more exotic especially) as dispossable!

**stepping down off my soap box**
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Hangin with the Herps
ZZ

the bill says that you can obtain a permit to own the species mentioned, but if you do, YOU CAN'T BREED THEM! Imagine if this happened all over the US. There would be no captive breeding of the reptiles mentioned!

Please...everyone call in and vote. Here's the generic message I have been sending to everyone I know:

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02684&sh=t

This bill, if set into place, will make it illegal for people in new york state to own boids, monitors, and other reptiles. If this bill goes through, other states will follow, and that is something that the reptile industry does not need.

Please call here: 518-474-8390
and tell them you oppose bill A02684

also email here: http://161.11.3.75/
or mail them here:

Governor George E. Pataki
State Capitol
Albany, NY 12224

and tell them why this bill shouldn't go through, and why it should never have been brought up, and never should be again (be extremely polite, which I know you will).

Thank you for your time, and I hope that you will help us out.

-Ryan Farnung

Well, again...it is WILD caught. It doesn't say anything about people who own captive bred animals or breeding those individuals.

Ky has an even strictor law (They prohibit the import or sale of ALL wild animals) and I have many reptiles and am not breaking the law...even breeders are not breaking the law....because the animals are CAPTIVE. Not wild.

"Companion animals" (which are NOT involved in the law!) are all animals which are not farm animals!!! They also have to be cared for by the owner.

Believe me this law isn't that big of a deal. I am not trying to convince anyone to NOT write a letter or anything...I am just saying, don't feel like you are not going to be able to own your pets or continue breeding your reptiles.

No where in that bill does it say you are not going to be able to own (or breed) your companions!!!!

Democracy works...I hope you guys get what you want!
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Hangin with the Herps
ZZ

basically, even if their intentions with this bill are that they don't want people to own these reptiles regardless of captive bred or wild caught, the way they wrote it is vague enough that it can be interpereted to our advantage. i'd still like to see that this bill doesn't go through though, because, for one, there are still quite a few species that are almost entirely wild caught, and if they prohibit that, how will people be able to breed them and produce captive bred offspring. How can they tell if an animal is captive bred or wild caught anyways? Couldn't you go to a neiboring state and buy one of the banned reptiles as wild caught (I don't support wild caught animals, but we need some in order to establish breeding with others) and just say that it's captive bred? Maybe I'm still missing something, but either way, I'm going to try my best to not get this to go through, or to at least make some changes with it (I do agree that venomous snakes and large mammals (tigers, lions, etc.) should require a permit, but I thought they did already?

Just some more for me to think about I guess.

Children are being asphixiated by snakes? Never heard of that happening, lol.
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WILD ANIMAL" SHALL NOT INCLUDE "COMPANION ANIMAL" AS DEFINED IN
11 SECTION THREE HUNDRED FIFTY OF THE AGRICULTURE AND MARKETS LAW. WILD
12 ANIMAL INCLUDES, AND IS LIMITED TO, ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ORDERS
13 AND FAMILIES:
14 (1) NONHUMAN PRIMATES AND PROSIMIANS,
15 (2) FELIDAE (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOMESTICATED AND FERAL CATS, WHICH
16 SHALL MEAN DOMESTICATED CATS THAT WERE FORMERLY OWNED AND THAT HAVE BEEN
17 ABANDONED AND THAT ARE NO LONGER SOCIALIZED, AS WELL AS OFFSPRING OF
18 SUCH CATS), AND HYBRIDS THEREOF,
19 (3) CANIDAE (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DOMESTICATED DOGS),
20 (4) URSIDAE,
21 (5) ALL REPTILES THAT ARE VENOMOUS BY NATURE, PURSUANT TO DEPARTMENT
22 REGULATION, AND THE FOLLOWING SPECIES AND FAMILIES: BOIDAE FAMILY,
23 ASIATIC (WATER) MONITOR (V. SALVATOR), NILE MONITOR (V. NILOCITUS),
24 WHITE THROAT MONITOR (V. ALBIGULARUS), BLACK THROAT MONITOR (V. ALBIGU-
25 LARUS IONIDES) AND CROCODILE MONITOR (V. SALVADORI) AND ANY HYBRID THER-
26 EOF,
27 (6) CROCODILIA.

This is what the bill says (and notice it says it does not include "Companion Animals". Which means: "PET" MEANS AN ANIMAL KEPT FOR THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF COMPANION-
31 SHIP THAT IS NORMALLY MAINTAINED IN OR NEAR THE HOUSEHOLD OF THE OWNER
32 OR PERSON WHO CARES FOR SUCH DOMESTICATED ANIMAL.

I agree with this law....you shouldn't keep WILD animals as pets! Am I confused or something. It appears that we are only talking about WILD-CAUGHT animals to me. Can anyone shed some real light on this?????
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Hangin with the Herps
ZZ

I can spread some light on it. The people that came up with this bill consider reptiles to be "wild animals", and not pets or companion animals (most peoples' definition of a companion animal is somesort of furry animal). Don't let it confuse you too much. It goes on to say that you can obtain a permit that would allow you to keep animals that are banned, but you CAN'T BREED THEM. This means that this is more AGAINST captive breeding than it is for it. I am definately emailing, mailing, and calling in with my feelings on the bill (I've already emailed twice), and I urge you to as well.

But basically, to put it simply, whoever wrote this bill does not understand the herp industry and how it works...I get the impression that they think more reptiles are wild caught. I don't think they understand the steps forward we have been making to ensure that someday there will be no need to take reptiles out of the wild. This bill hinders that goal greatly.

I think a lot of the problem lies with the pet shops selling these animals. They are notorious for giving new owners the wrong care information, selling the wrong equipment/housing, and underestimating the amount of food needed. While more regulations would drive up the prices, it would also discourage those who aren't serious owners and would decrease the huge number of neglected and underfed dragons out there. I personally would pay more if I knew it contributed to better lives all around for beardies. I believe Norway licenses properly trained breeders to sell them and that pet shops are not allowed to sell them. Sound like an improvement to me.

THIS LAW IS FOR WILD CAUGHT INDIVIDUALS!
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Hangin with the Herps
ZZ

from my understanding of the law, it doesn't specifically say that the animals have to be wild caught...whoever wrote it just thinks that all reptiles are wild animals. If you read through it, bearded dragons aren't one of the animals banned, but the fact is, if you let them ban these animals, you're hurting fellow herpers and opening the doors for them to ban more.

Please just help out how you can. Just call and say you oppose the law. Does a ball python really seem like an animal that deserves to be banned? With this ban, as I have stated before, captive breeding of reptiles is actually discouraged. They state that you are not allowed to breed a banned animal if you have one (which you will need a permit for), so if this happened all around the country, which would happen eventually if we let this slide, where will the reptiles come from? The wild.

Also, reptiles as a whole don't cause any serious problem....much less than cats dogs and horses. Dogs and horses kill more people annually than captive reptiles have in pretty much the entire span of the hobby if even close to that. This bill is being pushed into place by people that don't understand reptiles and therefore believe that they should not be owned.

I will try to keep it short. Please feel free to use and reproduce anything you see here

There are several topics here.

1) the beginning of the end. all to often we here, well if you pass this law it will lead to more laws with more restrictions. So far as a society, yep that's the way it works here.

2) How much restrictions will be tolerated and will they be worth the price? Getting a license to drive a car in this country is almost a mere formality. Look around next time you are on the road. How many people do you see with a license that should have it revoked? How many of those people have no license but drive anyway? In Germany a drivers license costs $1200-$1500 and as a rule they are much better drivers than we are. there are other costs that people don’t see so fast. Any law carries an overhead with it, it must be enforced. You have to pay for that. Police need to be hired and trained, courts have to be able to handle the new cases, not to mention the cost of prosecuting offenders carries a hefty price tag.

3) Selective enforcement. Yes it does happen. The police can use this and other laws like it to selectively prosecute some and leave others untouched.

laws like this are vague and inadequate at solving a greater problem. What is gained if this is passed? Nothing more than creating new problems requiring more laws. As an example, this country has over 20,000 gun laws n the books. that has far from solved the gun problem or should I say people problem!

As to the issue of wild caught, does every animal get a chip so we can tell where they are from or do we assume any reptile must be wild caught. If you tell me how this law will help change human nature and solve the issue of abused pets I will be happy to support it. Otherwise I must protest and say spend taxpayers money responsibly.

Please excuse me for not going into to much detail here. This is a reflection of my lifes experience in the criminal justice and political fields. If you wish to discuss it off list i will be happy to.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com