Reptile & Amphibian Forums

New York State is trying to push a bill through that will ban all boas, pythons, hots, crocs and certain monitors. This is very similar to the ordinance we stopped in Chicago last year. This Bill has passed the assembly and the senate, its currently waiting on the governor to sign off on it and make it a law. If passed January of 05 NY State can kiss the bulk of their reptiles good bye. Yes this includes your hypos, motleys, sunglows etc. There is a clause that THEY MAY grant NY residents a permit to keep any animals acquired prior to this law being enacted. However any permits THEY MAY POSSIBLLY grant are for pets only! You are not allowed to breed. But do you really want your $5000 sunglow boa you just invested in to be a pet only? How about your spider ball python? If not we need to get active and stop this!!! I urge anyone and everyone whether you’re a NY resident or not to voice their opinion and denounce this bill. I personally ship a lot of stuff into NY, I know I am not the only one, if your just starting out in business you need to think about this because if this passes this is an entire state you’ll loose the opportunity to ever do business in. I also urge everyone to spread the word to anyone and everyone they can. Contact show promoters, breeders, supply dealers hobbyists etc. Pressure these people, they have huge mailing lists they can spread the word faster then any of us. Make them realize they need to get involved soon enough their may be no one left for them to sell their cages, light bulbs etc to. Let NY know that we will not stand back and allow them to take away our rights as responsible herpers with their blanket laws. NY is one of those states the other states look up to when it comes to legislation so you can bet money on the fact if this bill passes it WILL spread like wild fire. The ordinance we fought in Chicago last year was verbatim the one passed in NYC a couple years back. So if your sitting their thinking I don’t live their so I don’t have to worry about it. There’s your proof you better worry about it.

Below is the link to the internet copy of the bill awaiting the gov’s signature.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02684&sh=t
The below link is to a page where you can email the Gov.
http://161.11.3.75/

To Write To The Governor:
Governor George E. Pataki
State Capitol
Albany, NY 12224
Below is a phone number where you can all and let them know your opposition to this bill. Tell them your calling in reference to bill A02684. You’ll then be asked if your for or opposed and asked for your zip code. I called today and gave them my zip and they logged my opposition to the bill even though I am a IL resident. If your moving there give them the zip your moving to.
518-474-8390

Many of you may remember some of you may not. Last year an ordinance came through Chicago as a knee jerk reaction to monkey pox that is pretty much the same thing as the current Bill in NY waiting for the Governor to sign off. This ordinance in Chicago we stopped last year, I was told by more then one person that we would never be able to stop it. Apparently the Aldermen who sponsored the bill is a powerful person within Chicago. I was told he has been known to push ridiculous things through and make them law just out of spit for people he doesn’t like. The people I spoken to who told me we would never be able to stop him or that city wide ban, deal with him on a regular basis and have done so for years. Very best they hoped that with all our support we could get the Aldermen to at least lisen and make the ordinance somewhat sensible. Well our support did the unthinkable and we stopped him from pushing the Chicago ban on reptiles through. When I spoke to these people they made a point that they didn’t think we could win, NOT because they didn’t believe in us, they didn’t think we could win because of the people and their tactics that we were up against. They were wrong, They were in awe, all they could say was thank you and how much they appreciated what WE had done. I know they spoke for the tens of thousands of reptile people within Chicago. My point of all this is two things, number one, we can do it, we don’t have to just roll over and take it from these people. There is enough of us and when we unit we CAN change things. #2 I was told last year that these politicians wouldn’t care what anyone who didn’t live within their district thought. Well they did, whether they cared because some of them realize you or I may become a voting resident in their district, prior to the next election or because of the over whelming response we gave them, I don’t care, all I know is WE got the job done and we need to do it again for NY State.

We need to stand up and let the government know that they have over stepped their bounds. Were Americans and we have rights as private responsible citizens and I for one am tired of seeing them stripped away!
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Jason & Danica
Well, I'm off my rocker, I fell out of my tree, I've been standin' on shaky ground, There's no helping me, yeah, I can't remember my number, I can't remember your name
I can't remember all the trouble I'm in, child....... Well, I'm insane(Ratt, Im Insane)
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i sent an email

Let's also tell the other people of other boards and our friends to stop this nonsense. We should also e-mail the governor multiple times, but not in a spaming manner.

On this forum, I asked the people to help us out with this bill.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=48298
Read further down, to see what kind of response I get. There are a lot of foul words, and also be careful when you ask others for help, because they may bite your head off.

I read most of the posts against licensing and the common thread seems to be "what about me?" My rights, my freedom, I should be able to do what I want.

So I ask "what about the animals?" Isn't it possible that licensing would weed out the impulse buyers from the folks who are serious keepers, the ones who will take the best care of their animals?

I live in California and the fact is, I could keep almost any species of animal I wanted as long as I was willing to work at it, including facilities, permits, etc.

Just a thought.....

I've been reading these posts and wondering 1. whether or not to put my 2 cents in 2. how to word my thoughts. You've worded my thoughts perfectly: ie The posts are all selfish, mainly "what about ME and MY rights", nothing about the rights of the animals. Someone somewhere even posted that it was his 'god given' right to own whatever animal he wanted. Sheesh.

I live with reptile licensing and think it is a worthwhile system. So what if one has to fill out a form once in a while, it's a millionth of a fraction of the effort the monitors themselves require. Rather than leading to the banning of reptiles, a properly regulated system keeps the more dangerous animals out of the wrong hands, minimising the likelihood of the sort of occurrences that would guarantee an all out ban. Where I live, for example, kids can get a licence to keep smaller reptiles, including some monitors, but not larger monitors like lace monitors (there is a minimum age and level of experience for those). I think that's a good thing, no matter how 'tame' people think monitors get.

For those who think that people should have a right to do whatever they want in their own homes, as long as it doesn't harm others, I wholeheartedly agree, on one condition. That condition is that the definition of 'others' includes other animals, including reptiles.

Off topic but how much experience is required before you can own a lace?

While I do agree in principal, my experience with governments in the US is, it will become a bureaucratic mess. Zoos will basically get free reign, and if I posted pics of an ackie setup I saw at one zoo on this site as my own, I'd get flamed. I just wish they were valued more. Becarri for $150, peachies for the same, it's enough to drive me mad, and those are considered expensive species by alot of people.

Besides if there were licenses or permits, than I might not have gone down the monitor road, and.... oops guess I proved your point. hahahahahahahaha

--Robert

How much experience do they need? Not enough, in my opinion. LOL.

The way it works is like this. To get a basic reptile keeper's licence, you fill out the forms, send in your money and voila, you are a licenced reptile keeper. Licenced to keep CB bearded dragons, carpet python and a whole lot of other species listed on the Class One licence list (quite a large list these days, actually). The animals must be CB, no WC allowed, and once a year you fill out your books and send them in. The books detail how many animals you started with, how many you bred, traded, died etc during the course of the year and how many you have left as of the end of the year. You can only buy from, or sell to, other licenced keepers.

After two years of holding your Class One licence, and provided you are over 18, you can apply for a Class Two licence. The rules are the same, but the list of species you can keep is bigger (and includes lace monitors). Not all Class Two reptiles are large and/or potentially dangerous, many are simply trickier to keep.

To get your venomous licences you need a Class Two Licence, then get letters of reference from people with experience (ie they've had their ven licences for a while) and proof that you've had experience and/or training handling venomous snakes. You then have to work your way up. The basic venomous Class Two licence includes a few of the less venomous elapids and goes up from there (inland taipans are at the top). I think there are three classifications

they don't allow breeding, which will halt captive breeding in new york. I don't see that liscensing is so bad, except that you wouldn't be able to breed, and that's something they need to fix if they really intended to put the bill through. I talked with two local reptile places and both of them said that they've been trying this same exact bill about every two years. They say as long as people call in, it never goes through. But basically, no breeding in new york, and if only wild caughts are allowed, every single reptile would be from a neiboring state. The problem with this? What happens when other states decide to do the same? The fact is, there are more people out there that abuse/don't know how to care for dogs as compared to those with reptiles. The only thing that's causing reptiles to not be cared for is the big chain stores, and other stores that just don't give the right information. But even as far as danger is concerned.... about 300 people are killed by dogs each year, and harly any killed by captive reptiles.

I do think a lisccense would solve some problems, but so would getting rid of the petshops that aren't giving the right information/caring for their animals. They would also need to fix the breeding thing, as I said before. That's just my personal opinion though.

I wasn't supporting the system they are trying to implement in NY , I was proposing a licensing system that would make the NY system an unecessary step. The licensing system we have in place here not only allows breeding, it promotes it since all animals must be CB to go on licence.

Okay, I was just making sure. I wouldn't mind if they implemented a system like the one your state uses in new york. I think it would make the reptile industry much better.

Heres a list of people, Ive contacted who are lending a hand by contacting their costumers and letting them know they need to get involved. I have permission from each person on here to post their names.
Bob Clark
Exotic Jungle, Jay
Mark Lucas
Larry Kenton Maryland reptile farm, Harve De Grace reptile show
Casey Hulse Nature Spirits
Ben Seigel
The Lizard King Mickey Hinkle
Chicago Herp society
Lee Watson Streamwood Reptile show
There’s a bunch more people that I have spoken to, big name breeders and businesses alike that are not on the list, that as well are contacting their costumers and anyone they can think of to oppose this bill. I will update this list in time as it is growing by the hour. Many of these people are not even from NY, so if you see these guys or talk to them let them know you appreciate them going out of their way and standing up for all of us.
Please if you are placing an order today for something tell them what’s up. The company you are placing the order with stands to loose a whole state of potential costumers. Contact your favorite supply company tell them to get involved, post this on your fav forums, contact other breeders ask them to touch base with their costumers. It doesn’t matter if your from NY or not it helps, I live in IL. To those who have already taken action THANK YOU!!!!
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Jason & Danica
Well, I'm off my rocker, I fell out of my tree, I've been standin' on shaky ground, There's no helping me, yeah, I can't remember my number, I can't remember your name
I can't remember all the trouble I'm in, child....... Well, I'm insane(Ratt, Im Insane)
Classic Dums frozen feeders