Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys,
I'm in the UK and new here!

I purchased a Female Paraguayan Rainbow about 5-6 weeks ago, and I got given what was supposed to be an under weight male recovering from old burns! It now turns out that the plump well rounded female I purchased is not female but male and the skinny under weight scabby male is/was a gravid female!

I only found out that the seller got the sexes wrong when 2 and a half weeks ago the male laid 2 slugs! SHE shed 2 weeks before laying the slugs and has since shed again... 2 weeks after laying the slugs. She ate a weaner Rat on June 10th and a Mouse on June 27th... she is still pretty much refusing feeds! And I think she may still be gravid.. I took this piccy of her today:

I know not a great photo.. but there does seem to be a slight widening towards the rear third of her body.. but I would like some opinions from more experienced Rainbow owners!

TIA
~Chez~
-----
2.4.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Grey Rat Snake
1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas

Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns

Chez,
. It looks like your snake is still carrying some babies or more likely more slugs. Slugs are stickier than healthy babies in membranes and are much more likely to get stuck in the oviducts. Putting the snake in a bathtub of luke warm water may help. It looks dehydrated and the water will help to rehydrate it. It will also swim in the water and the swimming action in combination with more hydration may help to get the babies or slugs delivered. If this does not work you will probably need veterinary assistance. It also looks to me like your snake is a Guyanan Rainbow rather than a Parguayan Rainbow. The animal dealers have exported a bunch of these snakes out of Guyana over the last 15 years. These are an unrecognized subspecies but they look somewhat like a photo of a Paraguayan Rainbow in the book Pythons and Boas (Stafford) which was the only readily available source that had PICs of anything like these snakes when they were first exported in large numbers. The dealers needed to put a label on them so they used the name of the snake that they "looked" like. Real Paraguyana Rainbows, Epicrates cenchria crassus are extremely rare outside their native range.
Jeff

>>Hi guys,
>>I'm in the UK and new here!
>>
>>I purchased a Female Paraguayan Rainbow about 5-6 weeks ago, and I got given what was supposed to be an under weight male recovering from old burns! It now turns out that the plump well rounded female I purchased is not female but male and the skinny under weight scabby male is/was a gravid female!
>>
>>I only found out that the seller got the sexes wrong when 2 and a half weeks ago the male laid 2 slugs! SHE shed 2 weeks before laying the slugs and has since shed again... 2 weeks after laying the slugs. She ate a weaner Rat on June 10th and a Mouse on June 27th... she is still pretty much refusing feeds! And I think she may still be gravid.. I took this piccy of her today:
>>
>>
>>
>>I know not a great photo.. but there does seem to be a slight widening towards the rear third of her body.. but I would like some opinions from more experienced Rainbow owners!
>>
>>TIA
>>~Chez~
>>-----
>>2.4.2 Corn Snakes
>>1.0 Grey Rat Snake
>>1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
>>1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas
>>
>>Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns

Heres a better pic! Still Guyanan?

Does the male look like a Guyanan too?

TIA
Chez
-----
2.4.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Grey Rat Snake
1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas

Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns

I have never seen a paraguayan rainbow before... I have seen Guyanans and they do look remarkably similar to yours.

The geographic difference between that of Guyana and Paraguay lead me to believe that Paraguayans would be similar to Argentinians or Brazilians... then again I could be completely wrong.

Just my thoughts... nothing I can scientifically prove.
-----
-Iman
1.1 Sugar Gliders (Gizmo and Nema)
1.0 Ball Pythons (Spot)
0.1 Guyanan BCC (TBA)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow (TBA)

Loving to Learn
Learning to Help
Helping to Love

Stimulate debates, stifle arguments.
Please be nice always.



Imans House of Herps

Chez,
. They look like Guyanan Rainbows. However, it is impossible to tell for sure. Both subspecies look about the same and I do not know the meristics to differentiate them. There have been thousands of Rainbow Boas exported out of Guyana. There are actually three different Rainbow Boas living in Guyana. The snake we call the Guyana Rainbow is actually an unrecognized subspecies. There have been only very small numbers of Rainbow Boas exported out of Paraguay, perhaps only a few dozen. Based on these numbers I think it is best to not try to identify any Rainbow Boa as a Paraguayan unless you have actual CITES documents listing one of the southern South American countries as the point of export. 99% of the Rainbow Boas that we see that look like that are in fact Guyanans. Importers in Europe and USA have mislabled the Rainbow Boas from Guyana as Epicrates cenchria crassus. These snakes have been misidentified for so long and passed through reputable sources so much that many people really do believe their Guyanan Rainbows are Paraguayan Rainbows.
Good luck,
Jeff

>>Heres a better pic! Still Guyanan?
>>
>>
>>
>>Does the male look like a Guyanan too?
>>
>>
>>
>>TIA
>>Chez
>>-----
>>2.4.2 Corn Snakes
>>1.0 Grey Rat Snake
>>1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
>>1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas
>>
>>Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns

Thanks Jeff,
Well I have no CITES documents for either as they are both CB98/99... the female was US bred in either 98 or 99 and imported here by a reptile vet David Feldemar.. I do not know who she was bred by but I think I can find out! The male was bred here in UK by a guy called Frank Scolefield in 98 so I can trace the males parents! I am not really that bothered tbh whether they are Paraguayans or Guyanans.. but should I want to breed them in the future.. when the female is back to full condition of course I want to know what I should sell the offspring as and I don't want to be selling them labelled as something they are not! :-/

Chez

Chez,
. They look like Guyanan Rainbows. However, it is impossible to tell for sure. Both subspecies look about the same and I do not know the meristics to differentiate them. There have been thousands of Rainbow Boas exported out of Guyana. There are actually three different Rainbow Boas living in Guyana. The snake we call the Guyana Rainbow is actually an unrecognized subspecies. There have been only very small numbers of Rainbow Boas exported out of Paraguay, perhaps only a few dozen. Based on these numbers I think it is best to not try to identify any Rainbow Boa as a Paraguayan unless you have actual CITES documents listing one of the southern South American countries as the point of export. 99% of the Rainbow Boas that we see that look like that are in fact Guyanans. Importers in Europe and USA have mislabled the Rainbow Boas from Guyana as Epicrates cenchria crassus. These snakes have been misidentified for so long and passed through reputable sources so much that many people really do believe their Guyanan Rainbows are Paraguayan Rainbows.
Good luck,
Jeff
-----
2.4.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Grey Rat Snake
1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas

Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns

Thankyou Jeff..
I have been given alot of conflicting advice about what I should do with her! I was advised to give her a moist moss lined hide.. which she has hardly moved from.. I've been advised to get her scanned or x-rayed, I've been advised not too, advised to take her to vets and advised to give her more time before seeking veterinary assistance! Also should I be concerned that she still allows herself to be handled?

I will put her in the bayh tonight and see if that does anything... if not she'll be off to the vets!

TIA
Chez

Chez,
. It looks like your snake is still carrying some babies or more likely more slugs. Slugs are stickier than healthy babies in membranes and are much more likely to get stuck in the oviducts. Putting the snake in a bathtub of luke warm water may help. It looks dehydrated and the water will help to rehydrate it. It will also swim in the water and the swimming action in combination with more hydration may help to get the babies or slugs delivered. If this does not work you will probably need veterinary assistance. It also looks to me like your snake is a Guyanan Rainbow rather than a Parguayan Rainbow. The animal dealers have exported a bunch of these snakes out of Guyana over the last 15 years. These are an unrecognized subspecies but they look somewhat like a photo of a Paraguayan Rainbow in the book Pythons and Boas (Stafford) which was the only readily available source that had PICs of anything like these snakes when they were first exported in large numbers. The dealers needed to put a label on them so they used the name of the snake that they "looked" like. Real Paraguyana Rainbows, Epicrates cenchria crassus are extremely rare outside their native range.
Jeff

-----
2.4.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Grey Rat Snake
1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas

Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns

Has she pooped or passed urates since the last meal? I don't think my female would resume eating if she wasn't finished. Does she have enough humidity? and a large water bowl to soak in?
-----
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer

Has she pooped or passed urates since the last meal? I don't think my female would resume eating if she wasn't finished. Does she have enough humidity? and a large water bowl to soak in?

She has pooped twice since her last meal... she pooped on 28th June and today while she was swimming in the bath.. her body shape has not changed! Humidity in her viv is 75% and she has a large water bowl big enough to soak in! Temps are 85F warm end and 76-78F Cool end!

A quick run down of her life with me so far:
23rd May - I collected them.
1st June - Small mouse offered and taken but regurged un digested not long after taking it.
2nd June - Eyes turn milky.
4th June - Eyes clear.
7th-8th June - Skin is sloughed in 2 pieces.
9th June - Mouse offered but refused.
10th June - Tried a weaner rat which she ate with no regurges.
13th-14th June - pooped and 2 Slugs laid.
15th June - Hide box lined with damp moss provided.
20th June - Weaner Rat offered and refused.
25th June - Eyes turn milky.
27th June - Eyes clear and she takes an average sized mouse no probs.
28th June - She sloughs in 1 piece.
1st July - She is put in a bath of luke warm water, she poops in the bath.

Prior to me getting her she had not eaten from mid December until mid April! She also has some wounds along her sides believed to be burns caused by an unguarded spot lamp at some point.. they have scabbed over but every time she sheds the wounds open up. When I got her she had 1 largish peanut sized wound and 3-4 smaller ones. All but 1 of the smaller wounds has closed up now and the bigger one shows definate signs of healing well. If she has not passed any more slugs/or live young by monday she is off to the vets.

Thanks
Chez
-----
2.4.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Grey Rat Snake
1.2 Russian Rat Snakes
1.1 Paraguayan Rainbow Boas

Coming Soon: 1.1 Royal Pythons, 1.0 Kaufiau Island Boas and 0.1.1 Corns