Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...an unfair fight!

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- Jonas Ott, Denmark

er... what was the outcome?

and why wouldn't you save the lil guy but take pics instead?

x|

Are you feeding your panthers veild chameleons? Pretty expensive feeder ...no?

did you gutload it properly at least ?
lol

Judging by the fake plants and such in the background, that didnt happen in the wild (also the fact the 2 species dont really live near each other - I think). Is that your setup or did you find that pick somewhere? IMO I dont think the peeps in this forum really want to see that kind of stuff unless its a pic from the wild. Sorry but kind of lame for u to post.

-roo

Why would you put that little guy in that situation. Don't tell me you didn't know that would happen thats why you had your camera ready.
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Thanks Dawn
1.1 Veiled (Moe and Isis)
0.2 Helmeted Iguana (Louie and Aphrodite)
0.2 Southern Toad (Tiny and Bubba)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Joker)
3.1 Cats (Buffy, Spike, London, and Lilly)

lol

The little veild was one of my hatchlings that didn't really eat or grow at all, the baby would have died anyway so I thought I would use it as a feeder instead of just killing it and throw it away....

Babies like that are not worth keeping anyway!

And yes, I took the pic myself...

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- Jonas Ott, Denmark

This has got to be THE most inconsiderate posting on this forum EVER.
This forum is a Chameleon forum. Dedicated to the hobby of keeping and raising chameleons of all types. Did you ever stop to consider how posting a picture of an animal eating a chameleon would make those who keep veiled chameleons feel? What if this was a DOG forum and you posted a picture of your Burmese eating some cute little puppy? You sure wouldn't get a warm response, would you? VERY RUDE AND INSENSITIVE!
I really don't care how you justify doing these things. If this is what you're gonna do with your chameleons, there's nothing I nor anyone else can really do about it. But please, don't go flaunting your actions on this forum. How about showing a little responsibility towards the feelings of others?
BTW, just in case you're not clear on the subject of my posting, I'm not posting on the ethics of feeding one animal to another (so don't turn this one around!), I'm posting on your blatant disregard towards the feelings of your fellow chameleon keepers by posting a picture of something we all would consider a pet (much like a puppy) being fed to another pet.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I agree, that is not necessary at all to show on this forum. We are trying to raise and KEEP healthy lizards here, not use them as feeders since they are "inconvenient" to keep around. So it was a runt and not eating as well as the others, did you ever check to see if anyone would take it? Im sure someone would have given him a lovely home instead of a stomach.

Sure would be nice to get rid of some "inconvenient" humans that arent worth feeding and keeping around anymore like that...

Very nice...

~Erin

this is not right i am just about to buy a baby veiled chameleon i bet the one buy looks alot like the one that was eaten in fact i would have taken that little runt if you were to offer it to me

Why is everyone getting mad at this pic? he said it himself it would have died anyways. Might as well not let the little guy go to waste. I think he took a very nice picture sure the subject could have been a little controversial if he did not explain the pic but the fact is he did. For whoever made the referance to the cham being like a puppy awww poor you, if u dont like the pic dont look at it!

We got a lot of people who are keeping exotic animals in their home yet can't handle the thought of actual wild animal instincts. What if that happened in the wild and someone took a picture just like that? What would you say then?? It's their nature to do stuff like that. I don't exactly agree with the whole getting rid of the veiled like that, but why whine about it. It's over and done with, and if you can't handle it you should see a counselor. Honestly, if your feelings get hurt that easily, you're bound to get eaten up in this world. If you own a cham you see stuff getting eaten up all day such as crickets, worms, roaches, and even ANOLES. Those are all living creatures just like that veiled.. Just because you think the veiled costs more, or is cooler, doesn't make it more important. Think about it tree huggers......

>>Why is everyone getting mad at this pic? he said it himself it would have died anyways. Might as well not let the little guy go to waste. I think he took a very nice picture sure the subject could have been a little controversial if he did not explain the pic but the fact is he did. For whoever made the referance to the cham being like a puppy awww poor you, if u dont like the pic dont look at it!

Aww poor me? My comment on the cham being like a puppy was to underline the fact that most people in this forum look at chams in the same light as dog. That is, as pets.
For this character to come around to a CHAMELEON forum and show a chameleon being eaten is just plain insensitive to those of of who may have a chameleon. Maybe one who was recently sick, or one who just died. Think of how it would make you feel- you put a ton of resources into keeping your little chameleon alive, then this insensitive jerk posts a picture of what could be YOUR chameleon being eaten. These are people's feelings I'm talking about.
And for you to come around saying, aww poor you???!!!! How crude! Remember this- this forum has REAL people behind it. We will remember these RUDE, callous remarks. We will remember who said what. And when your little friend dies, don't come to us!
Happy 4th of July. Remember those who keep this country free.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Just out of curiosity, Did your panther chameleon have any problems after eating the veild? Any regurgitation, or undigested chameleon in ist excretion? How did the poop turn out? How long did it take the panther to swallow the whole thing. Sorry if the question seems insensitive to otehr chameleon keepers, but i just wanted to know what happens when a chameleon eat another.

If the chameleon eaten is small enough, there's usually no trouble digesting it. Happens often enough in the wild, I'd imagine.
No, your question is not insensitive, nor is the discussion of what happens when a chameleon eats a smaller chameleon. What I did find insensitive about this posting was the actual picture itself, and the context in which it was presented, meaning posting this picture in a chameleon forum. Chameleons are animals. Animals will be animals. Ethically, I don't hold any animal above any other animal. It's all in how us as humans perceive the animal. If we think of an animal as a pet, as a real part of our family, then I don't think it's appropriate to flaunt pictures of our little pets being eaten or destroyed. We do have those among us that have suffered through some tragedies with our chameleons. To have someone post a picture like this is to discount our feelings, our loss and sorrow towards these little beings that bring such joy to some of our lives.
Sorry if my other posting was rude. This whole thing just really struck a nerve.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

There are more humane ways to kill a sick animal than feeding it to another animal. Ever hear of compasion?
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Thanks Dawn
1.1 Veiled (Moe and Isis)
0.2 Helmeted Iguana (Louie and Aphrodite)
0.2 Southern Toad (Tiny and Bubba)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Joker)
3.1 Cats (Buffy, Spike, London, and Lilly)

That is probably the most ridiculous pic I have seen lately...or...maybe the winner of the lamest pic I have seen yet.

Way to go, I think you have won the prize to the "cynical pic contest". Or to the "morbid pleasure....please" contest, or the "smart pic section".

Although I have seen similar pics in the wild (of other cham species eating each other), it is hard to imagine that some distorted mind would feed a baby veiled CHAMELEON to another CHAMELEON. Pretty sick....

I can also tell you are incredibly smart..."panther v. veiled: unfair fight"....LOL no kidding!!....Oh well I guess this is a forum and when related to chameleons, people are entitled to post almost anything they want, including their BRIGHTEST IDEAS.

Yeah ... that was real nice of you to give the veiled a chance. So what if he was a runt or had probs eating. He wasnt an inch away from death was he? Bad karma to you!

-roo

First of all, the little Veiled MIGHT have survived, had you been aggressive in caring for him. Runts grow into healthy adults all the time. I've seen pip-squeak little trembling nano-runt baby Jackson's that barely eat grow into healthy adults. Secondly, that is a brutal and probably very painful way to "euthanize a runt". Third, as Victor said, it was classless to post that photo on this forum.

I have a sneaky suspicion that this was done purely out of sick fascination.

For what it's worth, that hatchling really doesn't look all that unhealthy to me.
Looks pretty normal in the first photo, unless it's several months old. He had to be eating something to get a belly like that.

I have to agree with that. I was a bit surprised at the size and condition of this "not worth keeping" cham. Unless of course that panther is smaller than normal (another runt but more valuable?). Sounds to me like someone on this thread is into chams for fast production and bucks. I have add my ire to the thread. If I had seen this predation in the wild it wouldn't have bothered me. That fact that it was deliberate and casual is what makes the pic offensive. That little worthless cham died pretty miserably.

From this guys second post he makes it sound like he usually kills his small/runt chams ... what a tool ... wait no ... what a whole toolbox. I'd like to gut load my crix with his brains. Def. sounds like he is running a cham farm or something - all for money.

-roo

i would just like to say that im not sticking up for anyone here
but... ever since man started breeding animals they have culled the weaker babies to strengthen the blood line which does lead to a stronger and better animal,some even think it may be more humane to kill a weak animal early on in life instead of a prolonged suffering.
in my personal oppinion i would rather buy an animal from someone who culls thier stock than to buy one from someone who saves the weaker one and may even let them breed also i dont think its all about the money because he doesnt sell the weak ones.
i cant argue with mother nature only the strongest survive in order to strengthen the gene-pool is the only proven method
sorry it was not my intent to piss anyone off only enlighten

The question of culling and the ethics involved in that argument is not what started everone off. That's not the point here!
The issue is this: This PERSON posted a picture of a chameleon being eaten in a chameleon forum. That's just plain rude, calous, and insensitive.
Disposing of inferior stock is something that every breeder must deal with in their own way, I'm not questioning that. It's the flagrant flaunting of the suffering of what most here would consider a great little pet- that's just uncalled for.
Before you try to defend this guy for posting these sorts of pictures, consider this:
This is a public forum, the whole world is able to view these postings. That includes our buddies over at PeTA. Like they need further prodding, the last thing I want to do is provide more fodder for their propaganda against the keeping of all pets.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

i have seen a pic just like the one he posted, posted here before, it should not make a difference whether its taken in the wild or in a house.
plus i thought he needed someone to stick up for him...lol
it kinda upsets me when a bunch of people pick on someone with different beliefs.
as for peta i dont think the correct way to fight them is to hide my (our) oppinions.
there are two sides to every story!

This is an interesting debate, but at the core of it is that some people believe the fate of the calyptratus juvenile was cruel, or that it suffered unnecessarily. The suffering of this calyptratus juvenile was limited to being attacked by the pardalis and consumed, which likely transpired in under ten minutes. Compare a quick death by predation to the fate of more than 75% of all chameleons born into captivity - they become injured or ill, then suffer in pain and misery for weeks, or even months before expiring from one or more common and recurring husbandry failures including, but certainly not limited to:

- renal failure from insufficient drinking water and ineffective watering methods;

- Metabolic Bone Disease from imbalanced and poor diets, usually accompanied by organ failure. The chameleon may become crippled by weak, rubbery bones and linger for months, terrified and getting weaker and weaker before starving to death because it can no longer feed or drink;

- first-degree burns from improperly placed lamps, which usually go untreated, followed by bacterial infection;

- bacterial and fungal infections, internal and external, from poor hygiene of the cage or prey insects they consume, watering systems that are contaminated, and cage environments that are kept too wet;

- improper temperature ranges and insufficient illumination and UVB exposure;

- injuries or biological shutdown from inappropriate caging materials and cages that are far too small;

- lack of veterinary care or appropriate medical treatments;

and in nearly all cases;

- captivity-related psychological stress from handling and exposure to moving objects chameleons instinctively view as predators,especially humans.

Chameleons suffer much longer than 10 minutes from this kind of treatment, and it is by far a crueler fate than being consumed by another chameleon. Day after day, people post to this forum about sick, injured, and dead chameleons that are that way because they were not provided with adequate care by their keepers to sustain life and reasonably good health in a chameleon, or because the chameleon was taken out of the wild, and failed to adapt to life in a cage and was abused terribly at every stage of being sold into captivity. The simple fact is that most captive chameleons die well in advance of their potential lifespan simply because they are captive.

These are greater tragedies than feeding a calyptratus to a pardalis, and more deserving of serious thought, discussion, and remedy.

Its not so much that he fed it to the other chameleon (even though I think that was completely HORRIBLE) Its that he posted it here for all to see like a trophy!
Personally I dont want to see pictures like that when im browsing a favorite forum. If he had put something like "Violent content Beware" or some warning it might be different.

It sounded like something different when you first looked at the thread, then open it up and hello jurassic park!

My main point is think of all the people on this forum who have baby chameleons. They dont want to see one that could look just like theres becoming an entree.

Erin

she was, and still is, small for her age, missing part of her tail and has a strange mouth formation. Had the woman who gave her to me not seen the potential in her and either destroyed her or fed her to another animal I would be missing out on a very wonderful companion.

Everyone has berated you well so I will not add to that aspect - except to say that I agree with Victor, Erin, Carlton, et al - and simply say shame on you.
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

What a bunch of crybabies you all are... ;o)

First of all, I think some of you may think the panther is adult size - he's not! The little veild in the pic is (was) the size of a hatchling! It was about 2 months old and hadn’t really grown at all, "the round belly" is simply the result of the panther crushing half of the body making the belly look round! Let me assure you - this baby was not eating and was not fat!!

Am I just in it for the money??? - If I was I would have sold the little baby, knowing it would die in a few days! In nature this animal would never have survived, especially not the two month I kept it going.

Keeping and breeding chameleons is a hobby of mine, and I don't - like any other serious reptile keeper - consider my chameleons pets! The goal of keeping and breeding chameleons has to be to maintain a healthy stock of animals for the hobby - anyway that’s what I aim to do...

I think, and I may sound insensitive now, that trying to keep weak animals like that alive and taking in “runts” is very wrong! If someone should breed such an animal the babies would have the same weak genes, and we would end up with some very poor animals in our great hobby… In nature it’s “survival of the fittest”, but in captivity we can sometimes cheat this natural selection of good genes – and by doing so we’re only cheating ourselves!!!

I never mend to start what has become an ethical discussion, but maybe it’s for the best anyway! Reading some of the replies I can’t help to think that I not the twisted one… If some of you consider your chameleons a pet like a dog you are really of! – get the dog instead!

Hopes this clears a few things…

Best regards,
C. Darwin…
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- Jonas Ott, Denmark

>>What a bunch of crybabies you all are... ;o)
It's comments like this that show your true intention, which is to shock us. It also shows how insensitive you truly are to the feelings of others.

Secondly, like I stated before, no one here is really interested in your justifications 'survival of the fittest', 'for the betterment of the species', 'not truly a pet', we've heard them all. Like I stated, I can't change your mind about what you will do with your offspring. Do what you have to do.
If nothing else, listen to this: The issue at hand was your insensitivity in posting this picture. The issue is not about whether the animal was fed off or not. The issue is simply that you don't care about what others think and only think about YOUR selfish needs.
Maybe this is a cultural issue. Perhaps people in Denmark are just more selfish in nature, I don't know as you're the only person from that region I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. All I know is that where I'm from, PEOPLE show a little more compassion for the feelings of other PEOPLE!
Last thing I'm posting about this for sure. Have a nice day, hope your children don't feed you off when you get old!
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

How about this buddy, I own a chameleon. I couldn't possibly like any other that I've ever had more than my jackson... HOWEVER, I happen to think it's cool to see something new and shocking every now and then. How often do you get to see something like that. People don't get a chance to go out into the wild and capture something like that. So go ahead, argue against this guy for posting something that hurt your feelings, go take boot camp or something, it might make you a little less afraid of reality. Man, some of you people are so in the dark if you saw someone get hit by a bus you would have a mental breakdown and go insane for the rest of your life.... Good luck my perfect little angels...

Ultimately, people will have their opinions on whether or not those two pictures were "right or wrong"...and I'll stay out of that areana all together.

BUT...it would have been nice to have had fair warning that something graphic was contained in that post.
When I saw the title "panther vs. veiled" I thought it was someone looking at the pro's and con's of keeping one species over the other, or at worst, a picture or "story" of a stand off between the two species.

Imagine my surprise when I clicked on it, and got something WAY more than I bargained for.
I think no matter what your stance is on the subject as a whole, it's only fair to warn people if there is something potentially offensive contained within.

That's just showing common courtesy, and respect for others.
There is no way that the author of that post didn't know that at the very least some people would be shocked and offended by it.
Give people the choice to be shocked and offended. Then if they choose to look anyway, that's their own problem. But, by posting on a public forum, and not giving any forewarning that something of a graphic nature was in that thread the original poster made it HIS problem.
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Kim

Lol... it said panther vs. veiled unfair ....
what did you think people would see ?

like I said, perhaps a story or picture of one or both chams fired up after seeing each other.

Any number of things could have been contained in that post, but the last one I would have thought of is a picture of one cham being eaten by another.
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Kim

>>First of all, I think some of you may think the panther is adult size - he's not!
Actually no, the little panther seems awful small for his age. And not too colorful either! Not exactly what I would call a gem of a panther, definitely no genes here that I would consider passing on to future F. pardalis. Just wondering why HE wasn't fed off to your cat?
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

"Keeping and breeding chameleons is a hobby of mine, and I don't - like any other serious reptile keeper - consider my chameleons pets! The goal of keeping and breeding chameleons has to be to maintain a healthy stock of animals for the hobby - anyway that’s what I aim to do... "

- If you don’t consider your chameleons pets, what do you consider them to be? Id love to hear the answer to this one.
- If your goal is to maintain a healthy breeding stock and you claim that "is what you are going to do", then you are doing a VERY POOR job because you should have given your UNcolorful panther to a bigger one, or maybe to your cat as someone suggested.

"I can’t help to think that I not the twisted one"

- If you were to find a distorted mind around here, just browse the first 4-5 pics in this forum and maybe you'll discover something. You might be surprised.
- However there is another possibility (very possible), if you think you are not the twisted mind, be sure that you are not a very bright bulb coming to this forum and posting your stupid morbid pics ("unfair fight..." LOL, man, you are smart..lol...)

1- not all of us on this forum breed our animals. Luna has not, nor will she be, bred BECAUSE of her size - not so much as to "weak genes" being passed along but because it might endanger her health. MANY OF US DO SEE OUR CHAMS AS PETS. I am just as responsible for Luna's health and well-being as I am for any of my other pets regardless of them being mammals, herps, arachnids or arthropods.

2- it was NOT Charles Darwin who stated "survival of the fittest"
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia (MIA
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

You posted a picture of a CHAMELEON BEING KILLED
on a CHAMELEON FORUM. Get it?

People on this forum consider their chameleons pets.

The problem here is simply your insensitivity.

We all understand how nature works.

Jacksonsrule, I have nothing against you and all your insights on my posts are always appreciated. I'm not posting this to offend you. However, people aren't just using this forum as a pet resource. There are breeders and hobbyists using this forum also. I think the only mistake this guy made here is labeling his post. He should have labeled it, "panther eating veiled". That way the people who are sensitive to something like this could just... hmmm... not click on it. And people like me, who enjoy seeing things that animals will do on their own accord, can click on it. How about when boas eat mice??? I'm sure many pics have been posted while at the same time there are people who consider mice to be pets.

The Panther did not do this on his own accord. This was a human-caused chameleon death.

And, would you post a picture of a boa eating a mouse on a mouse forum?

That is quite horrific. I didn't really think that was nessisary, as it does looks like a healthy juvinile.
A couple of points to make;
If the baby was so unfit, and 'supposidly' dieing anyway - how come it is stuggling so fiercly. It really doesn't seem like a really ill chameleon to me.
You wrote this and I quote, "It was about 2 months old and hadn’t really grown at all, "the round belly" is simply the result of the panther crushing half of the body making the belly look round!", But the Panther has that Veiled by the head - how has that made the body inflate?

>>What a bunch of crybabies you all are... ;o)
>>
>>First of all, I think some of you may think the panther is adult size - he's not! The little veild in the pic is (was) the size of a hatchling! It was about 2 months old and hadn’t really grown at all, "the round belly" is simply the result of the panther crushing half of the body making the belly look round! Let me assure you - this baby was not eating and was not fat!!
>>
>>Am I just in it for the money??? - If I was I would have sold the little baby, knowing it would die in a few days! In nature this animal would never have survived, especially not the two month I kept it going.
>>
>>Keeping and breeding chameleons is a hobby of mine, and I don't - like any other serious reptile keeper - consider my chameleons pets! The goal of keeping and breeding chameleons has to be to maintain a healthy stock of animals for the hobby - anyway that’s what I aim to do...
>>
>>I think, and I may sound insensitive now, that trying to keep weak animals like that alive and taking in “runts” is very wrong! If someone should breed such an animal the babies would have the same weak genes, and we would end up with some very poor animals in our great hobby… In nature it’s “survival of the fittest”, but in captivity we can sometimes cheat this natural selection of good genes – and by doing so we’re only cheating ourselves!!!
>>
>>I never mend to start what has become an ethical discussion, but maybe it’s for the best anyway! Reading some of the replies I can’t help to think that I not the twisted one… If some of you consider your chameleons a pet like a dog you are really of! – get the dog instead!
>>
>>Hopes this clears a few things…
>>
>>Best regards,
>>C. Darwin…
>>-----
>>- Jonas Ott, Denmark
-----
-Jamie Whitehouse
-corn_snake_123@msn.com
-formally known as corn_snake_123

It’s funny that I can’t convince you guys that the little baby was going down hill… How can anyone tell from at still shot that the baby is “stuggling so fiercely”?? It didn’t!

Pretty stupid to start commenting the colours of my panther when I try to make some reasonable points! – But what ever, I can take it…. For everybody’s info the panther is a juvenile measuring about 4- 5 inches, therefore the lack of colours! I find him pleasing for the eye anyway…

I get the point – you don’t like the picture! (I think it’s pretty good, and just wanted to share it with you). I guess we simply have different views on keeping chams, I can live with that hope you guys can…

No regrets,
Jonas Ott, denmark

Why is everyone getting mad at this pic? he said it himself it would have died anyways. Might as well not let the little guy go to waste. I think he took a very nice picture sure the subject could have been a little controversial if he did not explain the pic but the fact is he did. For whoever made the referance to the cham being like a puppy awww poor you, if u dont like the pic dont look at it! I know i posted this pic up top already but i meant to post it at the bottom i had no idea there were this many responses to this pic.

Next time label the post with something like "Chameleon feeding *GRAPHIC* or *NOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH* and people will know not to open it that might be offended, simple!

I see nothing wrong with the picture, veileds produce very large clutches, in the wild probably only a few survive the rest are eaten or die some other way, that is why the clutches are large to begin with - SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST - In captivity people seem to thing every single one should live no matter what its condition which is not fair to the animal or as nature intended. if that baby was not thriving and it was going to be put down at least it did not go to waste. Did it die a cruel death? I don't think so, this is how it happens every day in the wild. Granted many will not agree but that is reality.

I still dont get this "Happens in the wild" thing...
Yes there is the circle of life in the wild. Yes animals eat animals every day. But NO I dont think it isnt cruel. I seriously doubt any animal wakes up in the morning thinking "Jeepers! Lets get eaten today!" *other animals* "Oh yes what fun!" We know its there, wont change, but I dont personally like to be reminded of it everywhere I go.

And referring to the picture in question, somehow that doesnt look like a fun way to euthanize an animal. Compare the cruelness.
1) euthanized by needle, few seconds, done.
2) eaten by another animal, longer, more painful, worse way to die? think so...

Next time your head is chewed on a few times by an elephant or something, let us know how it feels.

Until then I still state that was a cruel thing to do and take pictures of *simmer* and the picture is better posted on another forum.

Erin

This post will probably not be read since it was a while back, but your argument is bogus. Herps don't think like that to themselves. Herps are not people. And pretty much your whole post is like..."Well, put yourself in the chams's shoes!" Chams don't wear shoes and they are not human, no matter how much you want them to be. END of discussion.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: thekingofproduct
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

"A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika. Nothin' proper about ya propaganda. Fools follow rules when the set commands ya. Said it was blue when ya blood was red. That's how ya got a bullet blasted through ya head"- Rage Against the Machine

You had your fun. You created the controversy that you wanted, by posting a picture that was completely inconsiderate of those who keep veiled chameleons and showed no compassion for those who keep veileds as pets. Thank you.
Honestly, I find this about as rude as going to a VET (as in those, who like myself, have served proudly in our ARMED FORCES) and posting pictures of one of our fine service people being murdered in Iraq. Same sort of disregard for the people being forced to view your sick pictures.
I'm very glad you posted this. You've shown your true colors to everyone who reads this forum. And as for others who have shown little regard for other's feeling (comments like 'oh, come on' and 'crybabies' and 'oh boo-hoo'- well, your day will come! Your day of grief will come- such is life you know. And that day when you're down, griefing over the loss of someone or something that you love, I HOPE SOMEONE COMES RIGHT UP AND SPITS IN YOUR FACE.
That coming from a vet who's had that happen to him.
Have a nice 4th of July!
>It’s funny that I can’t convince you guys that the little baby was going down hill… How can anyone tell from at still shot that the baby is “stuggling so fiercely”?? It didn’t!
>>
>>Pretty stupid to start commenting the colours of my panther when I try to make some reasonable points! – But what ever, I can take it…. For everybody’s info the panther is a juvenile measuring about 4- 5 inches, therefore the lack of colours! I find him pleasing for the eye anyway…
>>
>>I get the point – you don’t like the picture! (I think it’s pretty good, and just wanted to share it with you). I guess we simply have different views on keeping chams, I can live with that hope you guys can…
>>
>>No regrets,
>>Jonas Ott, denmark
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I really think you need to put things into perspective - I don't think its far for anyone to compare fallen soldiers in Iraq with a cham beeing eaten!!!

Pleace... Be sure that I feel sorry for your loss! But I find your comparison very misplaced on this forum!

Further more I really don't see how the picture can hurt anybodys feelings just becaurse they keep baby veilds to! I - obviously - keep and breed veilds myself, and I just don't get it!
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- Jonas Ott, Denmark

Oh do you find my comments a bit insensitive? Have I gone too far with my comments? Strike a nerve did I?
Well well, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black...
Need to put my comments into perspective do I? You mean the same perspective you used by putting this sort of picture in a chameleon forum?
Have a nice day sir.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Goood job for fighting in the armed forces but know that your done your going to use your experience as leverage in a chameleon forum because some guy posted a pic of a cham eating a cham. GET OVER IT! like i said previously if u dont like it dont look at it and yes whoever said they shouldave labeled the post better thankyou for bringing some reson to this argument.

>>Goood job for fighting in the armed forces but know that your done your going to use your experience as leverage in a chameleon forum because some guy posted a pic of a cham eating a cham. GET OVER IT! like i said previously if u dont like it dont look at it and yes whoever said they shouldave labeled the post better thankyou for bringing some reson to this argument.
Yes, Victor1616, you're completely right, I bow to your superior argument. Finished trying to stir things?
Jonas, glad you finally saw my point. Always when something like this comes up, out come others who lose the original point of the posting and get caught up in trying to shock others.
'Get over it' is the whole point of argument. Well, who can argue with this?
Have a nice 4th of July!
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi.tripod.com/sdchamkeepers/
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Moved from the Chameleon forum
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PHWyvern