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Ok, my wife dislikes the idea of freezing mice live. The CO2 chamber works well on the older ones but not so good on the little ones. Would there be any drawback to chloroforming them to sleep and then freezing them? I'm not talking soaking them in it, just dropping a couple cotton balls soaked in it into a small tub with them. Has anyone ever tried it and how well does it work?

Thanks
Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

>>Ok, my wife dislikes the idea of freezing mice live. The CO2 chamber works well on the older ones but not so good on the little ones. Would there be any drawback to chloroforming them to sleep and then freezing them? I'm not talking soaking them in it, just dropping a couple cotton balls soaked in it into a small tub with them. Has anyone ever tried it and how well does it work?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Sean
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>> Heart Mountain Herps

First thing I am thinking is 'where would I get chloroform?'
Second, if you want instant death for pinks and fuzzys I think dropping them into a container with dry ice is gonna get them faster without leaving anything residual in them for your herps. With dry ice if the lack of O2 doesn't get them the instant freezing will.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

I don't know about the chloroform, but I wouldn't do it. Heleium displaces oxygen on a cellular level (if I remember correctly) and will make them sleepy forever. I wouldn't know how to make a chamber for them (because freezing is ok in my camp) but maybe a large party balloon or something to see if she will accept.

If I'm wrong on the Heleium somebody please correct me.

Jeremy
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Wear Sunscreen

>>Ok, my wife dislikes the idea of freezing mice live. The CO2 chamber works well on the older ones but not so good on the little ones. Would there be any drawback to chloroforming them to sleep and then freezing them? I'm not talking soaking them in it, just dropping a couple cotton balls soaked in it into a small tub with them. Has anyone ever tried it and how well does it work?
>>

I've always lightly "thumped" pinks/fuzzies (who are physiologically more resistant against asphyxiation) before freezing them. Not hard enough to cause damage to the fragile pinkies, but enough to stun them, thereby rendering them unconscious and (hopefully) "unaware" of the effects of freezing. I agree that freezing live mice is not humane. Pinks, if frozen in groups or with bedding, will "huddle" thus prolonging their death. All things that, for me, rationalize my choice to "thump." Check the archives, I recall another discussion where others suggested they did the same thing with the desired results. Sadly, I don't remember the names of the others, but I do recall someone mentioning using the handle of a butter knife.
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Rebecca
TSBabe66@hotmail.com
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Thunk em. It may take a little more time then just stickin them in the freezer.... but it's far more humane. I agree that pinks don't take as long to freeze as the bigger ones, but there is still a time of discomfort that they experience that lasts longer than a thunk.

MissHisssss

I agree with most of the other posts I've seen on here...I have no problem using live animals to feed pets, but I don't see any point in making things unnecessarily stressful for them before they go off to complete the circle of life, so it's good to hear that you're looking for alternative methods. Using CO2 to kill mice is most likely a very stressful way for them to go. Humans, dogs, rats, and most other animals have chemical receptors in their nervous system to detect excessive CO2 levels, and it gets pretty unpleasant for them toward the end if they are euthanized with CO2. I was unable to find anything that specifically said that mice are the same way, but I'm 99% sure that they are. CO is a much more humane way to go about it. It does the exact same thing as the CO2, but they are unable to detect CO so (in theory) it's much more like going to sleep than feeling like they are asphyxiating. I have no anecdotal evidence from mice saying that they preferred the CO though. I have no clue how available compressed CO is, but they probably carry it in the same places they sell CO2.

Residual chloroform in the mice may (over a long period of time) become harmful to your pet, but I have no evidence to back that up for sure.

As for freezing them while they're alive, I imagine that that is incredibly painful. While a little pinkie that doesn't have much mass will definitely freeze pretty quickly, I bet it hurts pretty badly before they drift off.

Chloroform is suspected of causing cancer, and it soaks into your skin like water through a seive. Not only would it be bad to use for your reptile, but you are hurting yourself also. I work in a Lab and testing chloroform is one of the things I do. There are lots of USP, EP-BP and FCC test that call for very low limits on chloroform thats able to be present.

I don't think that you can obtain chloroform unless you either work at a lab or have some significant ties to one either.
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