Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Im looking to pick up a pair of mandarin rats. Since they are so expensive, I want to be sure that my choice is a good one. I have never kept rat snakes before. I plan to breed them one day, so I would like to know if they are a difficult species to get breeding. I have not yet breed snakes, I have a pair of kings and a pair of pines from 03 that I plan to breed once they are of size. I dont want to put all this money into mandarins and not succeed in breeding or end up with one or both dead.

What temps do they prefer? Noctural or diurnal?
What humidity?
How big do they get?
What size prey? (my kings like large prey, my pines take several smaller sized meals at each feeding)
What substrate is prefered?

Thank you.

I keep Mandarins and can answer some of your questions. My captive bred pair came from Robert Seib (they are absolutely beautiful and will hopefully breed for me next year). If you look further down the forum under a topic of "Where to find info on breeding?", he's added a link to his Mandarin rat snake care sheet http://www.easternindigo.com/mandarincaresheet.html .
Temps should be cool! I keep mine in the bottom non-heated tubs of a rack and they stay at about 72-70 degrees F. Mine tend to hide most of the time, so I'd say they are dusk/dawn active. I feel they do need a humid hide or slightly damp substrate. My ambient humidity is in the 50-60% range, so having a damp hide allows them to seek higher humidity when they need it. Mine do soak occasionally when getting ready to shed if their hides aren't damp enough.
I've seen a few big ones (6ft) but I think they average between 3.5- 5 feet.
For prey size- smaller is preferred. I have an adult male that still eats hopper mice and small rat pups.
For substrate- I use paper towel and dampen it as needed. I've seen other people use aspen, cypress, or other types of woody chips or shavings (not cedar)and spaghnum moss for humidity. Paper towel is just the easiest for me to keep clean and change often. The snakes can easily hide under the layers as well, when they aren't in their hides.
Mine have grown slowly and I'm not rushing them. I feed them small meals and they've done well. They seem to be shy, timid snakes though occasionally they'll strike in defense.
Hope that helped!
Lora

The attached pic is a 2000 male from Robert Seib.

Thanks a lot! Robert Seib is out here in California, which is good, I can pick them up. My house stays warmer than that during the day though, do you have any ideas on keeping the cages cooler? The air doesnt work here, I dont keep heat on my kingsnakes either.

As more and more people successfully breed mandarins, the price is starting to drop. While I only have 3 yearlings left from 2003, I do have 4 clutches ready to hatch from 2004. Two of the females that laid these eggs are gravid again.

So I will be lowering the asking price of baby mandarins this year.

There is great variation in color and pattern in captive bred mandarin ratsnakes. Some are just prettier than others. You have to keep this in mind, along with the health of the animal, and the general health and cleanliness of the originating collection, when selecting the animals that you are going to purchase for you own collection.

robert seib
Link

I understand the drop in price with snakes. Its true with all species and mutations. I sort of wanted to get in on mandarins while the babies were worth more money, but the high heat during the day in my house may not be the best for them.

You might want to practice breeding techniques with an easier species, like your kingsnakes, but that said, I don't think Mandarins are too hard. I wouldn't try breeding them at an early age, however. I'd wait until they are about four yrs. old, at least.

There are Mandarins from different locations, which look and behave like different subspecies. Lora knows her stuff and has some nice Mandarins, but there are some from other breeders which are nice too, and you should shop around for the best prices. You can get CB for as low as about $250/ea, and I don't think anyone should pay more than $400 for a normal speciman at this date.

Here's a juvenile Sichuan mandarina I got from Rex Knight who has some great snakes and is a good breeder....

Mandarins are montane and are active mostly at night. They hide during the day and are rarely seen. It's like keeping a large milksnake. They are hardy and cool adapted, conditions easy for me to reproduce in n. Michigan. My room temp range is 68 to 82*F, with higher end temps in summer with lows in the low to mid-70's. Herp Room humidity is usually in the high 40's, but can get higher or lower. I use aspen shavings and paper towels/newpaper. The snakes normally have a dry hide box, but I often use a moist hide when they go into the shed cycle as they can have shedding problems if too dry. My Mandarins are doing great under these conditions.

Good luck with these great snakes....TC.

-----
Ratsnake Haven: South Korean Dione's ratsnake, bimaculata phases, mandarina locales, calico and hypo taeniura, Western and Southern Plains ratsnakes

Thanks for the info! Thats a nice animal you have there, I like the red tones. I also like the darker grey colored individuals.

One thing that was not brought up. Mandarins are occasionaly imported and run a lot cheaper...until you factor in the fact that they come in highly parisitized and almost allways die within a few weeks. Make sure of where and who you finally get yours from. In the end it's not price, but survival that counts.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Yes I understand that. I always look to buy captive bred if I can.