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I know there was this huge debate a while back about the Jungle Boas. But is there any difference between a Jungle Boa and a proven Co-Dom Striped/Aberrant boa? Is there a specific different gene that makes them more special when bred as a super or is it basically the same thing as my Co-Dom Striped Boa line (just not as striped)? Anyone know for sure?
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

SORRY, wrong touchy subject...ANYWAY, here is what I THINK will be given as an answer-though this doesn't mean I agree.(because I don't really have an opinion on them either way!)

If your animals are co-dom and proven, and also abberant, you have a proven abberant gene...name it what you want, just don't call them jungles...WHY? Because Jungles are ONLY the animals, and subsequent offspring of the ORIGINAL proven line imported into this country.
But, if you do have a PROVEN abberancy and decide to name it something like, oh let's just say Jaguar boas, be ready to take a little heat-WHO KNOWS WHY!!!!

Hoppy, GREAT question, too bad the answer is so lose that I don't think anyone can give a concrete answer, and follow it up with a....AND THIS IS WHY!!! Unless you count, it didn't come from THIS animal as the end all answer, but IMO that just doesn't cut it as there are way too many similar animals that may or may not prove to be genetic. Take care, I now need excederin!!!

crazy color ... it's not just the pattern , Jungles have unbeleivable color..ask anybody who's produced a litter...the difference in color between the normals and jungles is pretty obvious.

I know there's a lot of discussion every time this issue is brought up...both good and bad...and I know a lot of people are sick of hearing of it which is understandable. With that being said...

I think the main difference between Jungle Boas from the Swedish line and any other proven aberrant genetic line of boas is the SUPER Jungle. A Jungle Boa bred to another Jungle Boa WILL produce Super Jungles. A Super Jungle bred to a normal Boa will give you a litter of ALL Jungles.

I am a very "prove it out" type of person. I want to see the work behind the gene and how it was proven out. Let the genetics speak for themselves. This is just me though...

I say, if you have an Aberrant Boa that you think looks like the Jungles and want to prove it out...GO FOR IT! BUT don't count your chickens before they hatch. In other words, don't go saying..."I just got this JUNGLE BOA and it was a recent import or farmed baby". Of course you can say anything you want to say and nobody can stop you ...and really nobody has the right to control what you say...but it's something I personally would never do.

But lets say you have this male boa that is Aberrant. You raise it up and breed it. It produces Aberrant patterned babies. Half of the litter sired by this snake has aberrant patterns. You repeat the breeding with other, unrelated females and get the same results. You can therefore determine that your Aberrant gene is at least Dominant.

The next step? Breed one of the Aberrant babies back to the original male. See what this produces. If it is a Co-dominant gene, it should produce some Super forms of your gene for you. These super forms may be visually different or they may not. If they are, GREAT...if not...you've got a little more work ahead of you. Breed one of the super forms to a normal and see if you get ALL aberrant babies. If so, then you have just proven the gene out to be co-dominant.

Does doing all this and getting these results mean that your Aberrant Boa is a Jungle Boa??? NO.

What next you may ask...

WELL...breed your Aberrant to a Jungle and see if you produce the super form. If they are the SAME gene then they SHOULD produce Super Jungles for you.

To me, that's the only real way to know if what you have is the same as the Jungle Boas or not. Some people may agree with me and some may not...it's all good. I just feel that this would be the best way to go about this particular issue and it's what I would do if I had an Aberrant patterned boa that I thought might be carrying the Jungle gene...

I am definitely no expert so I would love to hear what others think.

I know this issue can be heated at times but I enjoy discussing it nonetheless...

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

Hi Celia,

I must say that I agree with you 99.9%. The only thing that I would add is that once you prove an aberrant gene to be co-dom, you should be able to call it a jungle. However, you should name it another strain of jungle. If you don't allow this, then it would be like telling Brian Sharp the his strain is not really an albino.

Now I also know that the jungle is both a pattern and color mutation, however most people only associate the pattern mutation only with the jungle boa. So I think it is going to be hard to convince people that they have to have a color and pattern mutation to call it a jungle. I think we would be pretty lucky just to get people to refrain from using the term jungle until they have proven the gene to be co-dom.

Just my opinion and hope I don't offend anyone.

Matt Crabe

I think you make a very good point and I do agree with you on the Sharp Strain Albino comparison. It's always interesting and enlightening to hear other people's perspectives on an issue!

Celia
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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

the genetics and aliels that decide these things..... there's gotta be a gene somewhere that just spurs on some of the characteristics..
I have noticed some pastel stripers/codom stripers and more that have had similar pattern to jungles, with some minor differences which true jungles are known for.
I have noticed some of these with the same color as a jungle, but they are extremely rare....
There's gotta be something different or arranged differently that kicks that color into high gear for the jungles.. that yellowish rainbow coloring that just seems not real! Something is like reversed or something.. it's like you took that striping/color gene and made it radio-active or something!!

I believe few guys understand this.. a few suggestions may be people like Jeremy, Tom Burke, and very few others.. I believe Ben Cole may now about this, and Gray Rushin is always a pleasure to speak with..

There's just something there that throws these aberrancies and colors in a magnafied, deranged way that just makes it so incredible!

If you find out.. let me know!

Take care Jim, hope to see more beautiful litters from you this season. The girls I bought from you may go this season.. fingers crossed!

Joe Rollo - BciJoe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Jim,
I think your striped (jungle like) line has got great potential, How many times have you produced these guys? I have a male 50% poss het albino from your line that I plan on breeding this season, I will let you know what happens. The whole jungle thing has gotten out of hand in my opinion. This is obviously because of all of the folks calling unproven lines of abberant boas jungles before they have put the time in to prove them as such. I have a different line I am working on, but have just been selling them at normal prices untill it is proven for sure. In my opinion that's the way it should go, and I think your realy close to it.
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com

Hi Ed,
If you have one of the 50% het for Albinos from the Striped Line then you must have one of my 2001 babies, It was the only year that I attempted to bring the Albino gene to the line. I attempted to breed that male to two different females that year and only the Albino het breeding took, the striped female (the males mother) did not take so from then on I bred him only to the female.
I started the line in 1996 when it showed up as a fluke in a breeding that I had. You can visit my webpage to get the whole story on the line. Not only are they co-dom in pattern but they are also co-dom in color with the high pink coming out in just one generation. The ones I kept from last year have gotten insanely pink over the year.
Thanks
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com