Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is not a dig on anyone
who keeps snakes ,just a question for me,
that would need to be answered before I considered
having another snake as a pet.( had two as a kid)

Are snakes comfortable in captivity or would they be much "happier" or more comfortable in the wild?
Being able to live according to their instincts and evolutionary
develpments?
Now I know relitavely little about snakes and
what they are like in captivity so I can't really
comment but would be
interested to hear your views.
Would it be better looking for them in their natural environment?
Or is it o.k too keep them as long as
the right environment is created?
Thanks

I do not agree with these WC (wild caught) snakes, lizards, etc. being sold and kept in captivity. But when they are captive bred and born then the animal knows nothing else then living in captivity.

There are so many enclosure, cages, etc you can buy now days to make a natural looking enclosure for reptiles.

My 4 snakes all seem content in captivity. They get plenty of food, which in the wild they would have to hunt for, and I take them out for excercise every few days.

As long as you are providing the right care with their temp requirements and humidy then I'm all for keeping reptiles in captivity.
However I don't like to hear of people keeping snakes in these rubber maid plastic things. How natural is that??

Just my thoughts on the matter

I believe the English philosopher Thomas Hobbes said something to the effect that the life of man in a state of nature is nasty, brutal, and short. Snakes and other animals have it tough in the wild, too. Captive bred corn snakes and king snakes do well in captivity if you cater to their instincts. Either would probably suit you fine without having any impact on the wild populations.

Paul Hollander

In 1957 I came to South Florida. In 1958 the state massively sprayed the state with DDT (for mosquito control) and elininated huge amounts of wildlife in the process. Then came the building boom of the sixties. This boom is ending in my area as we are built out. Construction is moving upstate to build on what's left. All native wildlife in Dade and Broward counties is threatened, not just with habitat loss, but also competition with introduced species (including man).

It is not a question of would they be happier in the wild. the question is...will we allow them to survive in the wild?

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Good Post! With some species, they're extinct or endangered in the wild due to habitat destruction or over collecting. I'm not saying that every snake does well in captivity, many species can not adapt to a limited variety of food or limited space and environmental conditions that we are able provide as keepers. Many snakes will thrive and breed in captivity, we can more easily meet their needs, and I think that's a good thing. The topic of "are they truly happy in a cage" is not something that I can really answer. My cats would probably be happier if they could go outside but they'd probably have much shorter life spans, and a destructive impact on the native wildlife, if I let them. I don't think a snake really cares if they've got a bubbling pool and 4 different types of live plants in their cage- they're just things to crawl over or hide in. If you like naturalistic cages, and can maintain them hygenically, great! A terrarium style enclosure can work really well for lizards and some smaller snakes. I did that for years and gave it up when the numbers of animals I was maintaining and my busy work schedule made it too difficult to keep up with. For now, I keep my plants on the window sill and my snakes in safe, escape proof, easy to clean and maintain cages. Just an opinion...
Lora

My take on it is this.. the question isn't whether it would be happier... the question should be where can it make the most of its life? They belong in the wild yes... but most snakes in captivity have twice the lifespan of their wild cousins.. due to veterinary care and better food.. less parasites and antibiotics. You have to remember, in the wild, 75% of all hatchlings or neonates will die before they're a year old. Of the 25% left after that another 15% will die before they reach sexual maturity. Why? Survival of the fittest. What snakes personally can adapt to changing conditions will therefore pass on their genes to future offspring. The snakes we breed in captivity.. 95% of them would never survive... due to our craze for color morphs and hybrids. What normal phenotypes are left are totally unprepared for a wild life any longer. The instincts are still there but, like other predators, they haven't the experiences their wild cousins have had since they were born or hatched. They don't know what to avoid... what can harm them... etc. Captive bred snakes usually have compromised immune systems due to the comparitively sterile conditions we keep them in... and would never survive out there. Many wild snakes cannot survive in captivity due to adjustments to everything. Stressed and dehydrated, the parasite load in many completely skyrockets to life threatening levels and the administration of medication just stresses the animal out further creating more problems. I suppose what I'm saying, is if you want a snake of any kind, make sure you buy captive bred animals and not Wild Caught. Captive breds know nothing else...they mostly wouldn't survive the wild any longer (Not saying it isn't possible because it is.. but rare enough or we'd be over-run with released captive bred snakes) Many captive bred snakes actually won't touch live prey any longer unless they;ve been raised on it. (At least from what I've observed in posts from other keepers and in my own keeping). I have a male boa thats a testiment to that. I've offered him live stuff before and he will not touch it but give him fresh killed or frozen thawed and he's all over it. Same with my little female though she'll eat anything you put in front of her usually.Captive Bred is definately the way to go. Provide for the snake's needs and it will be content. I gyess I do that well enough since my snakes are never trying to escapoe their enclosures and are perfectly content even when out to coil around my shoulders or coil up in my lap while I do other things.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 2 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice and Mystique))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

There are SO many captive bred snakes available at really reasonable prices...And they should not be released into the wild for a variety of reasons...So there is no reason NOT to buy a captive bred snake. I personally think that most wild snakes should remain in the wild, although I have respect for individuals who keep wild-caught snakes as long as they know what they are doing. My opinion. Duffy

I agree to an extent to what you say...But many species of snake are not well represented in captive collections which means their survival is subject to the general public (humans) tollerance of their right to survive...namely not killing them on sight or building a condo on top of them.

A classic example is the San Francisco Garter, which is suffering hugely from habitat destruction yet is illegal to keep or breed in this country. Which is a fine example of moronic legislation designed to protect them...right up untill they are extinct.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Thanks for all those replies
it clears a lot up for me as I didn't even relise that
there was such a big market for captive bread snakes.
The only thing for me though now is
that I am currently living in thailand and I don't
think that there is any way really of getting any captive bread
snakes, there are quite a few different types of water snakes
around where I live
what do you think would be the result if
a snake was captured very young?

Maybe I should just go to the zoo where they have some reticalated pythons in a not very good state at all( thai zoo)
and try to adopt one and give it some decent treatment.

Any ideas?

Hi thanks again, just wondering if anyone would care to reply to the last post I sent concerning young snakes.

It would be interesting to hear your views

Young snakes are usually easier to adapt than older ones. A word of caution though. Make sure of the identity of the "water" snakes you collect. Rhabdophis are found in your area and look like water snakes. They are known to be potently venomous.

other than that.....I wish I were there because you have some beautiful and interesting Herps there (I've kept several of them).

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

You also have to think of a few more variables to keeping a snake, now that you're living in thailand. What type of access do you have to parasite free mice? I don't know anything abut the thai culture, so I can't even begin to guess if they have pet shops where you could go to get some frozen mice, or even live ones. Even if you can get some live ones you have to think are you going to be able to get them small enough to feed to your young snakes (pinkies, fuzzies, etc..), and what is the ability to continously produce or acquire such mice?

I agree with the whole wild caught/captive bred discussion where captives shouldn't be released and wild born should remain wild.

My only thing is this. I have been told "well you're feeding them everything, giving them a nice home, etc.." but why do young adults sometimes leave home? They have a nice home with loving parents and plenty of food..but they want to see what else is out there. However, we know other stuff is out there, these captive breds dont. You just gotta think..do they know? Is there some instinct in them that lets them know theres more out there?
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown