Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I would like to see some pictures of your creamsicle corn snakes because I like this morph.

Thx!
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-CornSnake-

1.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Licorice Rat Snake
1.0 Ball Python
1.0 ATB
0.1 BRB
0.1 BCI

ask and ye shall recieve

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0.1 Albino Cal. King (Fokker)
1.0 Reverse Okeetee Corn (trouble)
0.1 Creamsicle Corn (Spot)
1.1 Bearded Dragons (Bob & Margret)
1.1 Dogs(George and Ladybird) they are rescues.
1.0 Betta
0.1 Wife
0.1 Kid

Kerby...

It seems I owe you an apology.
Although you and I will probably never see eye to eye on the labeling of creams and when that should be ended for other terms, it was pointed out that my settings for viewing this forum may not of been set up properly.
I changed the settings and went back and reread the thread. With my settings, now, it does show your response to sasheena's post. Before I was just seeing everything following the initial post. I couldn't differentiate which actual post each subsequent post was to.
So, I apologise for the acusation.

now back to the use of creamsicle.
Like I said we won't agree on this point but I beleive that as long as they are albino or amel guttatta/emoryi mix they should be labeled as creamsicle. The other mixes such as hypo, snow or whatever will sooner or later need to be labled.
One of the reasons you stated you were against the use of "creamsicle" beyond what you feel is a percentage issue, was that a lot of new people to the hobby don't know what "creamsicle" means.
Your alternative was something like amel with GPR blood.
MY problem with this is..If they don't know what creamsicle is how in the world will they know what GPR is?
Now, if you sell an animal as a creamsicle, the person will always refer to it as a creamsicle, even if they aren't 100% sure what that means.
Now, if a person gets an amel (with GPR blood) they will see amel first and then (with GPR blood) second. If they are not sure what the GPR means they will begin to see their snake as an amel with some kind of blood, whatever that means, and this can and possibly will just be shortened to the more familiar term, Amel.
Unfortunately this can lead to accidental misrepresentation of an amel with GPR blood as an amel.
OK so, my apology if you will accept it, and my view on the use of creamsicle which you probably won't except...lol
I would not mind continuing this debate as long as we can both express our views without condeming or attacking each other
thank you
Jimmy

>>
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

Jimmy, I also apologize if my responses back to you were snippy. I'm sorry. You contribute a lot to this forum, and you are right we may never agree on everything.

**Like I said we won't agree on this point but I beleive that as long as they are albino or amel guttatta/emoryi mix they should be labeled as creamsicle. The other mixes such as hypo, snow or whatever will sooner or later need to be labled.
One of the reasons you stated you were against the use of "creamsicle" beyond what you feel is a percentage issue, was that a lot of new people to the hobby don't know what "creamsicle" means.**

One of the main problems with this issue is that the GPR and Corn are so close in taxonomy (subspecies) unlike hybrids (different species). And I know that not everyone agrees to what constitutes a "hybrid" LOL. In this reptile industry we have "locale" snakes and then we have "designer" snakes. The designer snakes are bred for certain color patterns/morphs etc.. And breeding different locales or sub-species is never questioned. BUT as we both agree, the product needs to be labeled honestly (although we may not agree to what that label is). As the GPR is bred into other corn morphs, the term "creamsicle" cannot apply as that would take away from the appearance of Orange/White/Creamsicle. You cannot have a purple snake with red eyes and call it a Creamsicle JUST because it has GPR in it BUT it is obvious that these new names/labels will have to denote GPR influence somehow.

**Your alternative was something like amel with GPR blood.
MY problem with this is..If they don't know what creamsicle is how in the world will they know what GPR is?**

They don't know that today, hence some of the posts on this forum are asking what a Creamsicle is. Just like they ask what makes a Lavender?, etc... Looking at the Classifieds you will find people selling hybrids BUT do not state that is what they are and then you see people asking on this and other forums asking what they are. You and I and others may label are snakes properly when we sell them, but others do not.

**Now, if you sell an animal as a creamsicle, the person will always refer to it as a creamsicle, even if they aren't 100% sure what that means.**

Agreed, that is why it is important that they do know that a Creamsicle is 1/2 GPR

**Now, if a person gets an amel (with GPR blood) they will see amel first and then (with GPR blood) second. If they are not sure what the GPR means they will begin to see their snake as an amel with some kind of blood, whatever that means, and this can and possibly will just be shortened to the more familiar term, Amel.**

Agree that people see that. But a lot of morphs are amels, just with labels/names. And if they are planning on doing any breeding and aren't aware that their corn morph IS AN AMEL (although it could be called something else). A Creamsicle is an amel, a Candycane is an amel... BUT a Creamsicle has GPR in it.

**Unfortunately this can lead to accidental misrepresentation of an amel with GPR blood as an amel.**

I disagree here, misrepresentation on our snakes that we sell to a customer, and then they sell their offspring, lets say a Creamsicle bred to a Blizzard is out of our control whether they say they have GPR in it OR they say it is part Creamsicle OR they call it an Amel with GPR or they say nothing. The risk is the same.

Kerby...

There gonna be brown with yellow specks in them.Im gonna call them my Turd line.I will make sure there nervous so they musk and defacate everytime you attempt to handle them.There will be no mistaking my proven line of corns.Im gonna try and get Mr.Hakey the Christmas Poo to breed with one of my female hypo's.Just trying to lighten the mood guys,or it's the 7 hours of paint fumes Ive been huffing today.You 2 comming over to help me lay 2 rooms of carpet tomorrow?

>>There gonna be brown with yellow specks in them.Im gonna call them my Turd line.I will make sure there nervous so they musk and defacate everytime you attempt to handle them.There will be no mistaking my proven line of corns.Im gonna try and get Mr.Hakey the Christmas Poo to breed with one of my female hypo's.Just trying to lighten the mood guys,or it's the 7 hours of paint fumes Ive been huffing today.You 2 comming over to help me lay 2 rooms of carpet tomorrow?
>>

I had a king snake that was the most disagreeble snake I had ever seen.
It was wild caught so that explains some of it but I swear, I think I saw it's head spin around several times.
If you even looked at it it would hiss, stike and expell.
And I am not just talking a little bit of musk either, it must have had special "musk glands" as long as its body. That stuff would be everywhere...lol
nasty little bugger.
I have a friend in PA that was looking for some eastern Tn locale kings for a breeding project.
I sent him the "devil" and another and in return he sent three okeetees.
I definitely got the better of that deal.
Hey Paul, I used to lay carpet for a while. Met a lot of interesting people that way but in knowing what is involved I think I will pass, thanks...lol
have fun
Jimmy
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

>>
>>One of the main problems with this issue is that the GPR and Corn are so close in taxonomy (subspecies) unlike hybrids (different species). And I know that not everyone agrees to what constitutes a "hybrid" LOL. In this reptile industry we have "locale" snakes and then we have "designer" snakes. The designer snakes are bred for certain color patterns/morphs etc.. And breeding different locales or sub-species is never questioned. BUT as we both agree, the product needs to be labeled honestly (although we may not agree to what that label is). As the GPR is bred into other corn morphs, the term "creamsicle" cannot apply as that would take away from the appearance of Orange/White/Creamsicle. You cannot have a purple snake with red eyes and call it a Creamsicle JUST because it has GPR in it BUT it is obvious that these new names/labels will have to denote GPR influence somehow.
>>

I agree with this.
Case in point the "Cinnamon" corns I got from Stephen Roylance.
They are not amel and therefore obviously not creamsicle but they are hypo guttatta/emoryi.
Now this is definitely a name people will not know, so any future projects with these little beauties will have to be explained as hypo guttatta/emoryis. or hypo corn/gpr.
hatchling "Cinnamon"

adult Cinnamon:

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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

If a corn has any GPR in it all no matter what the %, that we just add sicle to the end of the name? That way it doesn't have to be an amel to be a sicle.

Cinnamoncsicle
Ambersicle
Buttersicle
Lavendersicle
Snowsicle
Anerysicle
Aztecsicle
Stripesicle
Amelsicle
Candycanesicle
etc...

It would just mean that somewhere along the line GPR was introduced into the line.

Comments

Kerby...

>>If a corn has any GPR in it all no matter what the %, that we just add sicle to the end of the name? That way it doesn't have to be an amel to be a sicle.
>>
>>Cinnamoncsicle
>>Ambersicle
>>Buttersicle
>>Lavendersicle
>>Snowsicle
>>Anerysicle
>>Aztecsicle
>>Stripesicle
>>Amelsicle
>>Candycanesicle
>>etc...
>>
>>It would just mean that somewhere along the line GPR was introduced into the line.
>>
>>Comments

I hope you aren't joking
I have actually seen this and think it is a pretty good idea.
Or at least an example of this
I have seen lavendersicle used to describe that mix.
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

Of course I'm not joking. I actually thought it was a neat idea, but obviously others have thought of it too before me. Sounds simple......

Kerby...

Here's my picture of my questionable girl. If she does have emoryi influence, then I'm pretty sure it's not 50/50. That's what I get for taking on a "free snake"!

Opinions welcome. (Heck I don't even know if she's a girl!)

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~Sasheena

>>Here's my picture of my questionable girl. If she does have emoryi influence, then I'm pretty sure it's not 50/50. That's what I get for taking on a "free snake"!
>>
>>Opinions welcome. (Heck I don't even know if she's a girl!)
>>
>>-----
>>~Sasheena

wow,
That is a hard one.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that there is emoryi in that snake but I probably wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't, either...
I'm a lot of help aren't I?....LOL
Hard to beat for free!
If there was something they said that made you think creamsicle
then I would just consider it as having emoryi blood and work it from there.
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

>>wow,
>> That is a hard one.
>>I wouldn't be surprised to find that there is emoryi in that snake but I probably wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't, either...
>>I'm a lot of help aren't I?....LOL
>>Hard to beat for free!
>>If there was something they said that made you think creamsicle
>>then I would just consider it as having emoryi blood and work it from there.

No, I had no reason to believe from anything they said that the snakes were creamsicle... They were advertised as the "Red and Yellow One," and "The Black and White One".... From my understanding someone else got them, gave them to a friend to care for, and then that person couldn't keep them, so he sent them to me. It was a generous gift, and I will keep them both and fit them into my future plans. I'll be getting a couple other snakes where Creamsicle HAS been mentioned, but even in that case, it's "creamsicle-looking" .... so what the heck! No biggie really. As a teacher I enjoy having the snakes in the classroom, and I'll use my knowledge, or lack thereof, to help me to dictate how I sell these guys. Of course Kerby's babies are much more attractive and definately the DEFINITION of creamsicles.

So I think I'll call it like it is and make em hybrids!
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~Sasheena

>>>>I'll use my knowledge, or lack thereof, to help me to dictate how I sell these guys.

I meant to say I'll use that knowledge to help me sell their offspring

I hope never to have to sell these or any other snakes given to me.... I don't ever want to be the one taking snakes in and then selling them off and making a buck!
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~Sasheena

>>
>>I hope never to have to sell these or any other snakes given to me.... I don't ever want to be the one taking snakes in and then selling them off and making a buck!
>>-----
>>~Sasheena

That can really be a hard thing to do.
Sometimes things happen and you have to thin out a collection It can really be hard to choose who goes and who stays.
I hope you don't run into this problem.
good luck
Jimmy
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

>>That can really be a hard thing to do.
>>Sometimes things happen and you have to thin out a collection It can really be hard to choose who goes and who stays.
>>I hope you don't run into this problem.

Well I have had to thin my collection. I've had to say to myself: Self, what kind of snakes do you REALLY want to work with. And I've made tough choices. Mostly so that in the future I could focus on the snakes I like. We still have one group of ball pythons that hubby likes, but other than that and the one Jurassic Milk, the rest of the snakes are all kingsnakes and cornsnakes. Hard decisions to make, but much relief when made.

Now I have:
35 corn eggs incubating
10 king eggs incubating
2.4 cal kings
0.0.1 Splendida
0.1 Pyro Pyro
1.2 Florida Kings
0.2 Apalachicola Kings
2.5 Corns
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~Sasheena

Ok, I have this snake, and I'll get pictures up here as soon as I can, that was sold to me as a creamcicle. Lookin' at all the wonderful pics that Kerby and draybar posted, I seriously don't think that he is a cream. He was also sold as a she, so go figure. Anywho, I do believe it is a butter. THere's no white, black, or red in it. Saddles are a beautiful shade of orange, and the ground color is an amazingly bright yellow. In my opinion it looks like a butter, but I can't tell. Here's the question for you two havin' this very educational debate. How can I tell for sure what I have?? Is there any tell tale sign of corn vs. GPR or Emori? I bred him to an "anery" female I have, that I'm not even sure is an anery corn, but we'll see. Honestly, I wouldn't be surpised if eye lash vipers came out of these eggs, that's how unsure I am of this blood line. I'll post pictures of everyone and the offspring as soon as I can, but any thoughts would be appreciated. And to keep up with the Independence Day theme, here's a quote from the movie.

"Why we are on this particular mission we'll never know. But I don know, here today, that the Black Nights will emerge victorious."

AJ
King Donut Eater
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1.0 Hypo Okeetee - Wesley (Princess Bride)
0.1 Ghost - Sydney (Scream)
2.0 Striped Amel - Jay and Aiden (Kevin Smith movies)
1.0 Snow - Silent Bob (Kevin Smith movies)
0.1 Anery - Columbia (Rocky Horror)
1.0 Creamcicle - Brandon (Mallrats)
0.1 Zig Zag Anery - Pepper (didn't name her)
0.1 Normal - Bindy (Croc. Hunter)
0.1 Motley - Craven (Underworld)

>>With the orange saddles and yellow background it does sound like a creamsicle to me.
Pictures would probably help but you can't always tell from pictures.
This snake looks like a creamsicle to me but is supposedly pure amel corn.

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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

That picture looks just like my Brandon! What kinda snake is in that picture???

AJ
King Donut Eater
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1.0 Hypo Okeetee - Wesley (Princess Bride)
0.1 Ghost - Sydney (Scream)
2.0 Striped Amel - Jay and Aiden (Kevin Smith movies)
1.0 Snow - Silent Bob (Kevin Smith movies)
0.1 Anery - Columbia (Rocky Horror)
1.0 Creamcicle - Brandon (Mallrats)
0.1 Zig Zag Anery - Pepper (didn't name her)
0.1 Normal - Bindy (Croc. Hunter)
0.1 Motley - Craven (Underworld)

Hey AJ,
The snake pictured is Eowyn. If I had not been told otherwise I would say she is a creamsicle...but the person I got her from was informed by the breeder that she is pure amel corn.
At this time I have no true reason to beleive otherwise so amel she is.
pretty, though isn't she...lol
Jimmy
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

It could be a Butter, it could be a Creamsicle. A pic would be butter, @&*%$#, I mean better.

As we all know, corns change drastically from babies to adults. Some people are even keeping their corns for a year before selling them for that reason. If you are the breeder and KNOW the genetics of your breeder snakes, then you could be very accurate in labeling them as babies. BUT if you picked up some corns at a show 2 years ago and are breeding them for the first time this year.....who knows what will pop out. There are a lot of corns that are het, double het, triple het, etc... for stuff. So labeling some babies could be difficult for beginners IMO

Kerby...

Kerby...

Kerby...

Kerby...

Kerby...

Kerby...

One of the creams in this pic looks like it has the frosted thing going on.... very nice looking snake. Just wanted to say that... caught my eye big time.

Dave

I have noticed that and have produced some like that for 4 years now. I am now trying to separate my line of Creamsicles.

* Those that are really White with Orange
* Those that are really Orange with White
* Those that have an Orange Speckling pattern
* And some that have greenish borders around the saddles like some Snows have
* And some that are actually missing both the Orange and White colors. I have some that are very PINK where the Orange and White does not occur

Kerby...

Thought it would be interesting to compare this to Kerby's creamsicles.

Pure amel emoryi from Soderberg stock:

Thanks, I didn't know if you had any left as I saw a while back that you were selling some.

Those are beautiful!

I like the orange and white contrast.

Kerby...

Kerby...

Kerby...

Great Plains Ratsnake

Kerby...