Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi, i recently got a baby gecko, and for the animal i got it waxworms, mealworms, and crickets. but i have found out over time that for a single small gecko, i waste much more of the food than gets fed, most of the food dies before they ever get used(threw out 10 dead waxies today), or they grow so fast that i can no longer feed them to the gecko in like a week. i have 3 jars of supplements that are opened but barely used. so i been researching for another animal to get that i can keep and use a "food bin" (kinda like a fancy guppy breeder keeping an oscar to get rid of all the unfit guppies). so i stumbled onto the pacman, i know they dont move much, that's ok. i have a 5 gal lying around forever, so i wanted to get a small albino one and keep it in there for about a month or 2 until i gets too big, then i will get a 10 gal. i live in s. california, and its the summer, it is 12:20 in the am right now, and the room temp is 79 F, so i dont think i will need a UTH right now. but i will get one in the winter if needed, probably with the 10gal. i am not planning to put in any light fixture. just ambient light.

i have 2 questions,

1) i am kinda weirded out by the fact that they bite, i have never been biten by a reptile, and would like to keep it that way. i am not scared of the bite, but i am worried about my reaction, i dont think i can stop the jerk that comes after, and am really afraid of seriously hurting the animal. how hard do they bite? does it draw blood? and how prone are they to biting? has anyone tried just using a net, or some yellow rubber gloves? (isnt that better for them? keeping our oils off their skin?).

2) right now, i have mealworms, waxies, and crickets for my gecko, are those 3 enough to give a pacman a balance diet? all the pictures of the pacman i've seen are of the pacman with some sort of rodent apendages hanging out of it's mouth. besides looing cool, do they need mice? i dont plan to get any if they are good with just a purely insect diet. i just dont want to deal with mice if it's not necessary. i dont need them to get exceedingly obesse and large, i am not trying to breed them. i just want a nice pet that also happen to take what my gecko eats.

thanks for putting up with this lengthy post, just wanted to get some info straight before i commit. just because i am planning to get pacman to limit the waste of food doesnt mean i will not be responsible towards it. i will be given a good home, and when it needs a larger one, and if it needs a heated one as well. i will probably not get it if it needs rodent in its diet.

Pac-Mans eat all of those feeders listed, including mice (which should be fed once they've grown large enough to take one). They shouldn't be fed anything more than half their size. I haven't few my current or past frog(s) anything other than crickets, but I hear that waxworms can fatten them up, so I think you should go easy on it. As I remember from my past frog, they should be pigs rather than frogs, and your gecko will be lucky to have any food left after your Pac-Man is through eating. They can be hand;ed with gloves, but I don't think that'll prevent them from biting your finger. I've never been bitten, but my frog recently snapped at me as I was drawing my finger out of it's container--my old frog used to try to bite my finger through the glass. My reaction to these biting efforts was rapidly jerking away, and I think of it as a normal reaction, so to keep you and your frog safe, be very careful. They see your fingers dangling above their heads, but not necessarily behind their back. When feeding however, if you use tongs/forceps I think you should be prepared for them to lunge at the food. The quickness that the perform this lunge may also cause you to react. I HOPE MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE HAS BEEN OF USE TO YOU!

I have been bitten by my frog a few times, he always seems to aim for my hand instead of the tonges. When I have been bitten, it has just been small marks that looks like they have been done by a needle. Not really any blood either, since the marks were so small. I don't know if all pacmans bite like this tough, maybe I've just been lucky

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CokeOfMan

i agree with you... the marks are small. but my frog is small two. at only 1.5 inch. and both has got my fingers before. the first time i was bitten i really had a big reaction, i pulled my hands up and the frog dropped back into the tank, luckily it didn't fall a great height. after that incident, i always got myself prepared for a bite whenever my finger is in the tank. so i managed to control myself.

though the marks made are small, if u squeeze them after u get bitten, you can see blood coming out. so, i don't know what it will do to my fingers when they get bigger... quite a bit of thrill to get bitten...

I must have a really nice frog, because to date he has never offered to bite! But then I don't let him see my hands when I feed him, so he doesn't associate my hand with food! Whenever I do put my hand in the tank, for cleaning, he usually spooks and hops to the other side.
Also, from what I've read, there is no need to feed mice to these animals. I don't intend to, but he gets a variety of supplemented live foods like crickets, earthworms, wax worms, mealworms and beetles. So far so good!
Beth

never feed mice! they are way to fatty and can eventually lead to blindness. its besr to stay away from rodents all together.

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1 Albino Cranwell
2 Red Eared Sliders
2 African Clawed Frogs

Okay here we go again.
I'm just going to state the facts. If you want to see all of the citations you will need to go through the posts below on diet and mice.

Mice are not too fatty as long as you avoid old mice that are no longer breeding. On a kcal basis when compared to crickets mice either have less fat per kcal or are very close to crickets.
Crickets and other feeder insects contain the fats that are linked to corneal lipidosis (blindness).
Horned frogs feed on rodents in the wild (they are vertebrate specialists for whom over 90% of the gut volume consists of vertebrates including birds).
Rodents may be considered a calorie dense food item so the if feeding rodents the frequency of feeding needs to be decreased. In short if you feed rodents just feed less often.

Ed

what about strips of lean meat instead of rodent?

You are much better off with a whole prey item as it contains calcium (bones) and other nutrients that are present because it is a whole prey item. Strips of meat are a poor diet as they are deficent in these nutrients.

Ed

i see, that make sense. will frozen pinkies be sufficent? that's where i really draw the line, i am not dealing with fuzzies, or hoppers, or killing or knocking anything out. i guess pinkies are ok, since the gecko might benfit from those too. but if they need other rodents, then i probably wont get one. thanks for everyone's help!!

Correct me if I'm wrong...
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CokeOfMan

I would recommend supplementing with a calcium-D3 supplement when feeding any rodents to anurans as many rodents may contain too a level of vitamin A and this will help to balance it out.

Ed

Hey,

You don't NEED to feed ANY frog mice. You can feed it mice, but very sparingly. Pacman frogs will thrive on a strictly insectivorous diet. I have fed my pixie frog a total of two adult mice in its 8 month lifespan. My pixie is kinda like your pacman would be; if my snake doesn't take the mouse for some reason, then the frog gets it. But that's very rarely.

No you don't need to feed them rodents but you also don't NEED to feed them any invertebrates.

Ed

Don't get so offended; I wasn't attacking you. I was only stating a point. Everything's cool. Feed whatever you want to your frog, and I'll do the same.

I wasn't offended. I simply copied the manner in which you posted your comment. If you thought I was offended imagine how you initially came across as it was your format I was copying.

Ed

WTF is your problem? In my original message I wasn't even referring to your post in any way at all. I used all caps in specific words to refer to a way of speech. NEED and ANY. As in you don't really have to feed mice to any kind of a frog. That's it. Simple. But you took it as a personal attack and was completely rude about it. Whatever blows your hair back dude.

Hmm, I did not in either the original post or your first "whoa" post take offense. As you seem to have missed the point I made in the first and second post I will take a moment to explain it to you (maybe I was being a little too subtle).
You were emphasizing the various words by shouting them, just as I did in my post in response (as an example). I did not attack you, in fact I think I might have even agreed with you in the first half of the sentence. However you chose to take exception for the response even though it was handled in the same manner as your post. When I pointed this out to you, you then take offense and insult me.
If you post on an open forum anyone can respond to your post and make a comment or even heaven forbid correct you if you make an error. So whether or not you were responding to a post of mine or someone else's I have the right to respond to it. If you take exception to it that is your problem not mine.

Ed

frozen thawed is fine. Just dust with a supplement.

Ed

i feed a small pinky to my frog once every three weeks with crix and worm like waxies and mealies in between. But I also got a question if i fed my pacman a pinky should i feed it a couple of crix the next day or the other day my frog is like 2 inches long.

If you feed the frog a pink then you can wait several days before offering it another food item. While they will grow more quickly if fed daily they do not always need to be fed daily.

Ed