Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well he died on Friday night some time. I don't know what else to say. But I SURE do love LLLreptile for giving me a parasite infested skinny gecko.

Actually, as far as I know, LLLReptile is only a distributor and redistributor. They don't breed their own animals. Instead they purchase animals off of other people who contact them to buy them. Juvenile geckos can lose weight quite quickly because of their high metabolism for growth. I know... a juvenile I bought from a pet store lost 3/4 of her body weight in 2 weeks due to me not being able to get her to eat... So I wouldn'tblame LLLReptile altogether though they do have a modicum of responsibility to notice sick animals and remove them from the shipments, however, I've dealt with them in the past and recieved nice animals and great feeders. My Savannah Monitor came from them and her first vet check showed her clear of parasites and any other problem. One of my Juvi babies came from them.. and again.. in good health. So some of the blame goes on the people who sold LLLReptile a sick gecko to begin with. But I do believe they should refund your money or send you another...
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 2 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice and Mystique))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

Wow that's really sad... for the gecko. Lucien I agree with what you said, but I really hope lllreptile doesn't send a new one, at least until ravendawn comes up with the funds and/or means to give a pet the proper care it deserves (ie. vet).

Ravendawn you first posted almost a week ago, right? There's a very good chance a vet could have saved the little guys life in that time. I really don't have any sypmathy for you, sorry.

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Sorry, too bad you've had such a poor experience. Don't be discouraged - it can only get better. Yes, the animal should gone to a vet ASAP. Yes, I would refund or replace (that animal would not have been sent in the first place). Yes, disinfect the enclosure and anything that contacted that animal.Yes, only buy from a breeder, not a jobber who puts animal after animal in the same enclosure. Yes, arrange to be there WAITING when delivery is scheduled so you can inspect it immediately. Yes, awesome fireworks last night. Yes, I'm going surfing.

I shouldn't have had to had the vet money in the first place. I paid $65 to get a HEALTHY gecko, not one that requires another $40 or so to do testing on to determine the status of its health.
Now, if you just really feel I should have vet money to check out a lizard that should be healthy, then you can send me a check for $50. Otherwise, you can keep your opinion to yourself if you're going to be an arse about this.

rayvendawn wrote:
"Now, if you just really feel I should have vet money to check out a lizard that should be healthy ..."

You have to have money to afford a vet visit because even healthy animals can get sick, and it can happen one year, one month, one week, or even one day after adoption, you don't get to choose, that's how life works. If you don't have the money you shouldn't be getting any pet, whether it's a cat, dog, or a gecko. When you adopt a pet, you become responsible for proper care for it the rest of its life, and it doesn't matter who caused the injury or sickness. You are the owner, and ultimately, you have to pay for it if no one else will.

A good rule of thumb is that you should budget for two vet visits a year per pet. Hopefully you won't need them and you can carry over your budgeted funds to the subsequent years. If funds are tight, start saving, and when you have enough saved up in a special fund, then adopt.

Parents should explain this responsibility to their children before permitting them to adopt pets. It's part of teaching children maturity, responsibility and morality.

Thank you for a very good post. I 100% agree with everything you've said.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

"I shouldn't have had to had the vet money in the first place." As previously stated, you should ALWAYS have the money for a vet trip. You don't need to plan on a $500 surgery, but you can expect it's going to need a basic checkup or fecal exam or something at any given time.

"I paid $65 to get a HEALTHY gecko, not one that requires another $40 or so to do testing on to determine the status of its health."

I admit that LLL should have sent you a healthy gecko (it's your fault for waiting 2 weeks to even look at what you bought with the apparently precious $65). But it is also your responsibility to take it to a vet and get it the care it needs. I assume you would likely take a cat found in your front yard to at least the human society or a shelter, so that it can get care there. Hell, even e-mail LLL and ask for full reimbursment for the visit before you go. But if you honestly feel that a dying animal shouldn't go to the vet because it's not what you paid for, you should not have a leo.
Simply becuase you paid for something that ended up being not healthy doesn't resolve you of, if anything, a moral obligation to that leo's life. Not that you can do anything about it now... but if you would have handled this differently I do beleive LLL would have done something to help out and that leo would still be alive.

"Now, if you just really feel I should have vet money to check out a lizard that should be healthy, then you can send me a check for $50. Otherwise, you can keep your opinion to yourself if you're going to be an arse about this."

Really the wrong road to take here... It's going to get you nowhere in the form of answers. I'm sure LLL would have done something for you, but from previous posts I know that you had a friend care for it for two weeks and quite frankly, it IS your fault. That leo may have been perfectly healthy when it was shipped, and if not, you should have been there to e-mail them immediately. Calling up after 2 weeks and saying that it is dying is not going to work with any breeder. The fact is that you should have seen the gecko and read LLL terms. Directly on their terms section is reads:"
We guarantee all of our animals for a live, healthy arrival, and your complete satisfaction with the animal upon arrival [ Frogs are live arrival guarantee only ]. Notification of dissatisfaction must be made within 24 hours after receipt of shipment." It's not like you were an hour late on the e-mail, it was 13 days past the guarantee. If you really cared, you would have looked at the animal. If you couldn't have been there, you should have not ordered the animal until you were available to do so.

Going back to an old post you made...
"He has told me that if I will take the leo to the vet to check the feces that he would buy it from me so I can get the one I want from somewhere more reliable. So I know that he will take good care of it. The leo's appetite isn't doing so well now."

WHY DID YOU NOT DO IT?!?! Fecals cost $15-20, your friend would buy it, and you'd never have to hear about it again. But instead you decided that it was too much money and you were too busy worrying about how pissed off you were that you completely forgot the animal was suffering and in need of severe care. If you would have waited the 2 weeks, you could have had it delivered straight to you with no friend in between. IMO, it sounds like you never really cared about the life of the leo, and you handled almost every step of the transaction wrong.

One thing I will give you: you did come to this website and ask for help, now only if you would have done what we all suggested from the beginning...

I guess that's all I got... Don't mean to be an "arse" about it, but I'm saying what every breeder feels when they read a story like this. Sorry if I repeted myself.. happens sometimes when I really get into it..

PS. Why did you pay $65?? LLL has babies listed at 35, and from what I've seen they haven't been over 50 for juvies and babies. I can't say that they didn't, but there was other options you could have used to get a leo for $50 and use the $15 for a fecal exam.
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles
Brian@MilwaukeeReptiles.com

Once again, another great post.

I have one thing to add that I forgot about. In one of your pictures you had the blizzard with another leo. Please, if you care at all about this one, take it to the vet, at least a fecal. If it is your friends leo, tell him to take it to the vet. For all you know this leo could have given the blizzard it's illness. The stress after shipping could have made the blizzard more susceptible, therefore causing him to show symptoms before the other one.

Besides trying to give it crickets, did you try anything else with the blizzard (ie. force feeding)? They can become very dehydrated as well, which is the cause of death in many leos. If this ever happens again, a little bit a baby food and calcium powder on the lips can do a world of good.

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

I have to agree with everyone else on this one. That Leo SHOULD have been taken to a vet immediately whether you had the proper funds or not. EVERY animal that comes into my possession has at the very least, a fecal smear and float down within a week of being brought in. Now, I live on disability payments. I cannot work.. and my reptiles are part of my activity therapy. But.. I make sure there's money to keep my pets healthy and well fed... Their care comes even before mine. You really should be ashamed of yourself for thinking just because you paid $65 for what should have been a healthy gecko that you shouldn't have to take the sick one you recieved to a vet. That is a horrible way to look at the care of a life. Up until a week ago I did a 6 hr round trip just for vet visits for my reptiles because we didn't have any other reptile specialists around. Now I found out we have one 45 minutes away. My Sav right now is ill. She only cost me $40 but that doesn't mean I won't spend $1000 if need to be to save her life if its in jeopardy. You should be just as prepared to do the same thing for any of your animals whether you have the money or not. Payment arrangements can be made with most vets.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 2 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice and Mystique))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

You guys are a bunch of idiots, I told you I don't have the money I can't pull the money out of thin air. I didn't have the gecko in my posession for 2 weeks, it was at a friends house for the first week and the rest of the time it was with me, which was very short. By the time I got the gecko it would barely move. It is not my friends fault, he didn't sign up to take it to the vet or spend any money on it. As for the 65 bucks, the gecko was 35...the rest was shipping. I don't know what is wrong with you people, you act like you are gods that always have the money for your pets and always do the right thing. The gecko was going to die from the day that I got it, it is infested with parasites. The whole point to my posting this in the first place was to warn others about LLLreptile and how unfair it is that they sent me a sickly gecko. I didn't start this to bring out all the know-it-alls on this forum. So instead of telling me the same thing over and over without making any real points, why don't you go pay for other peoples vet bills instead of griping about it?
I'm not going to read this thread anymore, its pointless.

Calm down little one. I was agreeing with you, that animal should never have been shipped and you said I'm an "arse" (sniff...).After 15 years of breeding hundreds of these awesome little guys I've never seen one get that thin in two weeks. No, YOU shouldn't have to take an animal so recently received to the vet, we're just thinking of what's in the animal's best interest. Being realistic, by the photo you posted, I feel that one was probably too far gone anyway. About 8 years ago a guy at Expo in Orlando sold a bunch of coccidia-laden geckos... I got 12. Luckily, most of us quarantined. Even the ones that didn't survive treatment lasted longer than 2 weeks. You have a right to be po'd, but not at us.

With the exception of crypto, parasites in leos can be treated. I've seen leos in far worse shape than yours make miraculous comebacks, but that's because the owners don't mope around--they get off their butt and do the work. In my opinion, you had plenty of time to save that gecko. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and stop expecting us to feel sorry for you.
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5.8 leopard geckos

chickabowwow

No necropsy was performed so who knows? My only BAD experience was with coccidia (thankfully)years ago. The Tx regimen of Albon is so extensive that animal most likely wouldn't have made it through. I keep Panacur, Albon, liquid Flagl which is very inexpensive in Mexico. Not to mention the Swift lab microscope, and having a vet for a best friend... go ahead, cry foul. Hope it's all never needed. Anyway, have to agree with you - never give up. These are hardy little guys and it's usually something simple. They deserve every chance they can get and when you have one that looks bad then turns around and gets big and fat and healthy it's great.