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Big Guns

thesnakeman Jul 05, 2004 12:51 AM

Here's an idea, Let's get in contact with actor Nicholas Cage. He's a herper. And one more good person to have on our side would be Dr. Hass in Floida. Does anyone know his first name? I can't remember. I met his wife once, she used to come down to animal control and pick up our hots.

I like all the other web sites, and title names, and gimmicks, but I still call for a NATIONAL HERPETOLOGICAL & HERPETICULTURAL SOCIETY. All of that other stuff will be helpful. We must keep it all freindly and as interfaced as possible. But that is the goal I have set for myself, and that is where I am headed. All who wish to join me in this endevore, are weclome aboard!

I am painfuly aware that we do not have a constitutional ammendment in support of this. But I am eqauly aware that there is not one against us. What is against us is, The American Humane Society, and P.E.T.A. You cannot mention one without the other. They are synonimous, in my opinion. They would like nothing better than to see us go away, and we must not allow them to succeed.

Again here are my goals;
1.Unite all herp soscieties under one flag. Get as many people involved as possible. Get organized, and start fighting back.
Lobby, and fund raise for that effort.
2. Educate the public, the powers that be, and all herpers new and old about us, and safe and responsible herping.
3.Promote herping and herp conservation, especially the eastern indigo snake. Raise funds for research and conservation efforts.

Thats it, pretty cut and dried but, I think it's what we need. so If you are in agreement with that, then let's get the presidents from all the locals to start talking as well. If not, don't worry,...I will pester you til you do.
Tony.

Replies (4)

thecaiman Jul 05, 2004 11:21 AM

what you are proposing has been tried and failed several times by several differant people. Jeff B was even ivolved in one of those efforts that didnt go very far. I wish ya the best of luck and dont mean to rain on your parade but its a wasted effort. Your not going to get the fundage your thinking and hoping for and setting it up where you rely on funds it will fail when they dont come through. and if they do come through its money that would be better spent with PIJAC or the local herp societies. another thing I can tell ya is if you think you have a chance you need someone from one of the big societies to step foward and run it with them. So you have a known name involved in the finaces/decisions. No one is going to send someone they have never heard of donations. And the few people who may be willing to send a stranger donations are not gong to amount to much in the long run, if you got a better idea how to set someting up and make it work the right way I am all for it, I had the same idea as you last year and spoke to Jeff B and Marshal Myers from PIJAC and both pretty much agreed it would go no where for reasons stated above. However I wont support anything that will pull funding away from PIJAC nor the established societys. Your best bet is to try and find a liason for each state and work to speed up information.
-----
Jason & Danica
Well, I'm off my rocker, I fell out of my tree, I've been standin' on shaky ground, There's no helping me, yeah, I can't remember my number, I can't remember your name
I can't remember all the trouble I'm in, child....... Well, I'm insane(Ratt, Im Insane)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

thesnakeman Jul 05, 2004 08:34 PM

Not trying to... I don't want any money . Period. I don't want to run this thing either. And yes it would be exelent if the right local club prez would step up to the plate. But so far nobody is...so... somebody step up!

I do not want money period. So don't send any period.And right now this thing would just be a list of names that could be rallied to write letters, and make phone calls, and start using the bloody brains that god gave us and DO SOMTHING! No more daw gone excuses! I'm sick of hearing about what cannot be done. We did not get to the moon, or stop Hitler, orbuild a railroad coast to coast by sitting around thinking up excuses why not to do these things. We were able to make these amazing accomplishments because that is what we do best here in this country. We say "yes I can". And then we get busy and do it.

Now I do not want to offend anyone. And This may sound inflamitory to the host, but then, this is an inflamitory topic, and it is all in the right place and it is meant in the right spirit. In the Army we used to say "lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. If you cannot be a part of the solution,...PLEASE don't be a part of the problem.

What we need is a new spirit. A new way of looking at this thing. A spirit of fighting for what we believe in. I beleive in this. I beleive in the power of good people getting together for an important cause. And because they got together, they were able to make things better for themselves.
Tony.

thecaiman Jul 05, 2004 11:54 PM

>>"Not trying to... I don't want any money . Period. >>
>>I do not want money period. So don't send any period."
"Again here are my goals;
1.Unite all herp soscieties under one flag. Get as many people involved as possible. Get organized, and start fighting back.
Lobby, and FUND RAISE for that effort"
Now unless you have a bunch of kids your plaining sending out to wash cars for that money, I think its safe to assume you somehow were thinking of trying to solicite it from other herpers. If so as I said its money better spent with local herp societys or PIJAC.

You can stop barking about Hitler. All I was trying to do was offer you some sound advice so you wouldnt waste your time.

"And right now this thing would just be a list of names that could be rallied to write letters, and make phone calls, and start using the bloody brains that god gave us and DO SOMTHING!"
Humm I guess I have done nothing then huh anyway. Neither you nor I need a list of names such as that. In private hands the law could find some generic excuse to raid a home and get that list. With herp societys or PIJAC it wont happen. Were better off with a list of societys that anyone could pull from the net then a list of names that in the wrong hands could become a target list. aside from that "the list" has already been tried and went no wherewith all the wackos out there these days 9 out of 10 people got more sense the to hand out contact info to strangers.

"We say "yes I can". And then we get busy and do it." If that is what you are going to do, go for it.
>>
"In the Army we used to say "lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. If you cannot be a part of the solution,...PLEASE don't be a part of the problem." Maybe you guys said get the hell out of the way when I was in the army we said get the F$#k out of the way. As far as me being part of the problem I have been in this fight alot longer then you!!
>>
">>What we need is a new spirit. A new way of looking at this thing." dude look I have been in this fight alot longer then you. Its nice to see you excitment over this but dont be so niave. The spirit of this industry is money along time ago it was for the love of the animals but out popped and albino, someone figured out they could carge 10g's for it and people would buy it and boom, these animals took on a whole new look. You just need to calm donw a little bit.

"A spirit of fighting for what we believe in. I beleive in this. I beleive in the power of good people getting together for an important cause. And because they got together, they were able to make things better for themselves."

I do to, im speaking to ya from experiance, so calm you horses a little bit and listen. Your all wound up wanting to run out and save the world, its not going to happen over night nor the way you want. One last thing you say your not a memeber of a society why should anyone follow you in creating one? Anyway Im tired, good night
-----
Jason & Danica
Well, I'm off my rocker, I fell out of my tree, I've been standin' on shaky ground, There's no helping me, yeah, I can't remember my number, I can't remember your name
I can't remember all the trouble I'm in, child....... Well, I'm insane(Ratt, Im Insane)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

thecaiman Jul 06, 2004 10:26 AM

this is a clip from a local paper in NY
"The original bill was modified, partly because of heavy lobbying by the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, which hired powerful Albany lobbying firm Hinman Straub to represent its interests. The council paid Hinman Straub about $57,000 over the last year to lobby on this and other animal-related issues."
The rest is posted below, this was posted by RL Reptiles
Exotic animal ban could silence call of the wild
Albany -- Owners outraged by proposal to curb ownership of pets

By ELIZABETH BENJAMIN, Capitol bureau
First published: Monday, July 5, 2004

Fur is flying over a ban on ownership and breeding of "wild" animals now awaiting Gov. George Pataki's signature.
The measure, passed by the Legislature in June, would also require current owners of such animals to apply to the state Department of Environmental Conservation for a permit to keep their pets at an annual cost of up to $80 per animal.

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The issue has pitted the keepers of unusual pets against animal rights advocates. Both sides maintain they are acting in the best interest of both the public and the animals -- some of which are rare or even endangered.

Supporters of the ban say it is needed due to the increased popularity of wild, or so-called "exotic," pets that can be easily acquired from dealers or over the Internet.

The animals were not meant to be confined and require more care than most people can give, ban backers say. In addition, these animals can transmit diseases and could seriously harm their owners, bystanders or emergency workers.

"Certain types of exotic animals aren't fit to keep as pets," said Stacy Wolf, director of legislative services for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Exotic pet owners say they are responsible caretakers who are being unfairly penalized for a few people who mistreat their charges. They call the $80 fee onerous and threaten to sue if the ban becomes law.

"New York does not have an exotic animal problem, we have a human stupidity problem," said Deborah-Ann Milette, who keeps four large cats -- three servals (long-legged African wildcats) and one caracal (sort of a lanky lynx) in her Warrensburg apartment.

"You can't tell me I've got to pay more to register a monkey that weighs 6 pounds and don't bother anybody than a bull mastiff that weighs 130 pounds and can tear you apart," said Ron James Sorenson, who keeps nine monkeys in his Bronx home.

The new rules would apply to a veritable Noah's Ark of creatures -- from monkeys, bears and large cats to venomous snakes (which already require a DEC license for private ownership), boa constrictors and pythons, most lizards and all crocodiles.

Those who violate the ban would risk losing their animals and a fine of up to $500 for the first offense and $1,000 for subsequent offenses. Licensed zoos, veterinarians, wildlife rehabilitators and researchers would be exempt.

More than a dozen states ban private possession of wild animals. At least seven have partial bans. Others require permits or licenses for many of the species in New York's legislation. New York City already has a ban stricter than the state proposal.

In Albany, the exotic pet ban bill has been pending since 2001. A campaign by supporters and a string of high profile media reports of animal attacks, such as a man who was badly bitten last fall by his pet tiger in his Harlem apartment, helped spur lawmakers to act.

Assemblyman Paul Tonko, D-Amsterdam, the bill's sponsor, said lawmakers sought "a balanced" approach.

"What we tried to do was address public safety and, at the same time, be reasonable," Tonko said.

The original bill was modified, partly because of heavy lobbying by the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council, which hired powerful Albany lobbying firm Hinman Straub to represent its interests. The council paid Hinman Straub about $57,000 over the last year to lobby on this and other animal-related issues.

The ban's sponsors compromised, leaving out iguanas, among the most popular exotic animals sold as pets, and birds, which are equally popular -- even among state lawmakers.

Supporters of the ban admit it will be hard to enforce. The DEC has neither the staff nor the resources for a full-scale animal census, so it will have to rely mainly on voluntary compliance or complaints.

The state hasn't had much luck enforcing an existing registration law that took effect last April. The law requires exotic animal owners to register with their local municipal clerk or risk a fine. The clerks must send the information to police and emergency services workers.

Several local clerks contacted last week had no knowledge of the registration law and no exotic animals on file. A spokesman for the state Department of State, which was supposed to develop a list of exotic animals targeted for registration for the clerks, said it is just being completed and has not yet been sent out.

If the ban becomes law, Milette said she worries exotic animal owners will "go underground" and stop seeking care for their pets. She also fears an increase in euthanized animals taken from owners who disobey the rules.

The ban could cause more exotic animals to be killed, Wolf conceded. But the ban, she hopes, will ultimately discourage people from getting pets they can't care for, preventing animal cruelty.

Milette maintains her cats, which are all declawed, are no more dangerous than dogs, which bite more than 4.7 million people a year, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association. Approximately 800,000 people seek medical treatment for dog bites a year, the association said.

There are far fewer reported exotic animal bites, Milette pointed out, although that may reflect the fact that fewer of them are kept as pets. But they do happen.

In 2000, a Troy child was mauled by a serval cat. That same year, a Queensbury educator had 90 snakes and other reptiles seized from his house because of poor care. In 1997, a pet monkey went ballistic in a Central Avenue pet store and did considerable damage.

Sue Arnold, an exotic animal breeder in Florida who sells cats like Milette's for $1,800 to $2,000 apiece, said these pets require considerably more care than an average cat or dog.

"It takes a person who is willing to raise another child," Arnold said.

Arnold opposes an all-out ban on exotic animals, but favors a permit system like Florida's, which requires would-be owners to attend training classes on handling the species they want to acquire.

Like many exotic animal owners, Milette is unquestionably dedicated to her cats: Qe Tesha of the Nile (the caracal) and Cleopatra, Noah and Motuka of Africa (the servals). On permanent disability, she stays home with them all day long and never leaves them alone or allows them outside unsupervised.

Milette, who says her primary residence is in Rhode Island, said she will leave New York rather than seek a permit if the law takes effect. She already lost one pet to such a ban.

Milette was fined in Massachusetts for keeping a serval named without a permit. She later had to surrender her cat to authorities after refusing to apply for a permit. In 2000, she was cited in New York for allowing a "dangerous animal" to stray too close to a public space -- the sidewalk -- while it was leashed.

Milette has a U.S. Department of Agriculture license to exhibit her cats, which she does by offering free educational programs. She says federal inspectors come annually to her home to make sure it's suitable for her pets, and says a state ban would be an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.

"I'm already regulated," she said. "This law is redundant and we don't need it."
-----
Jason & Danica
Well, I'm off my rocker, I fell out of my tree, I've been standin' on shaky ground, There's no helping me, yeah, I can't remember my number, I can't remember your name
I can't remember all the trouble I'm in, child....... Well, I'm insane(Ratt, Im Insane)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

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