Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Questions you should be able answer before getting your first gecko:

1. Have you read the care sheets for leopard geckos? Do you know what size and type enclosure they need, what and how much they eat (both as juveniles and adults), and do you know what temperatures they need?

2. Do you know why you shouldn't use heat rocks?

3. Is your enclosure clean and ready for the gecko? Does it contain NO other pets or geckos? Do you know why it should not have any other geckos in it to start?

4. Does it have a heat source and have you allowed a few days for the temperature to stabilize and then measured the temperature to make sure it is the appropriate range?

5. Do you have hides in the cage?

6. Do you have a water source in the cage?

7. Do you have a supply of food, of the right type, and of the right size for your prospective gecko?

8. Do you have a supply of gutload for the feeder insects?

9. Do you have supplemental vitamins and calcium?

10. Are you comfortable handling the feeder insects?

11. Do you have a ready local source for feeder insects or are you committed to mail ordering them on a regular basis? If the latter, have you already ordered and received some so you are ready for the gecko?

12. Have you found a local reptile vet who has knowledge about leopard geckos, and have you called to find out how much it costs for checkup and for a fecal test and had them verify that your understanding of proper gecko care is correct?

13. Can you afford vet visits and tests for your prospective pet for the length of its life?

14. Are you prepared to make an intial baseline vet visit and get a fecal test for your new gecko (in terms of time, money, and commitment)?

15. Are you ready to commit to care for the gecko for 10+ years it may live?

16. Can you afford to buy the services of a pet sitter to care for the pet if you go on vacation or are hospitalized or otherwise unavailable and none of your friends and family are around to help out? Do you know how much one costs and were to find one in an emergency?

17. Can you describe what a healthy gecko looks like and what some signs of sickness are?

If you can't answer yes to every single one of these questions, or worse, don't understand them, then you are NOT ready to get a leopard gecko.

Great post, I agree these are questions that people need to know BEFORE they purchase a leo. Better be safe than sorry. Read the "Leopard Gecko Manual" and other good books.
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Raydeohed

0.1.0 Leopard Gecko "Lego"

Great questions... I agree completely. Also, the nice thing about this forum is you can get answers to specific (sometimes little) questions that books and care sheets don't seem to cover. Great checklist! [I'm new at geckos but have experience with many types of animals and critters.]

- Denise

- 1 leopard Gecko
- 1 Rosy Boa snake
- 1 Red-Eared Slider
- 1 90-gallon African Cichlid aquarium
- 1 Amazon Parrot
- 1 Cocker Spaniel
- 5 cats (I know, I know)
- 1 Dwarf Hamster
- 3 Hermit crabs

[In no particular order... And I think I got them all!!!]

I've read around 30 care sheets out there but not all info. is reputable and information is sometimes contradictory. If anyone can post some "good" links, I'd appreciate it. Or email me.

Thanks,
Denise
heartsx2@ameritech.net

heartsx2 writes:
"I've read around 30 care sheets out there but not all info. is reputable and information is sometimes contradictory. If anyone can post some "good" links, I'd appreciate it."

There are some topics about which there is some legitimate debate, but most care sheets will agree on the basics. One site I generally like is:

www.drgecko.com/

Some good topics (but read the whole site):

On quarantining a new gecko and fecal exams: www.drgecko.com/quarantine.htm

What a fecal exam is and how to collect a good sample:
www.drgecko.com/fecalexams.htm

The importance of veterinary care, how to find a vet, the costs, and what information you should provide to a good vet:
www.drgecko.com/veterinary.htm

All about proper temperature: www.drgecko.com/heating.htm

The drgecko site is even more conservative than I am, recommending 3 separate fecal tests on new geckos! (a fecal exam will typically cost between $10 and $25, fyi -- the faster you catch problems, the easier they are to solve, reducing the chance of a dead gecko.

A responsible person won't go too wrong following the advice on this site!

In my opinion any animal that needs to be housed in a cage is not a suitable pet. Imagine being in a room that lets you move around, but after a few weeks it get a little "old". Day in and day out you are dependand on some other animal to give you all the nessesities, what if they forget you for a few days every once in a while. What if you had to eat food with this crappy white powder on it, when you could be eating a wide variety of "natural" foor in the WILD. Wouldn't you be happier. Not to be blunt but, they dont love you. LOVE is a human emotion, not a lizards.

I am straight out going to admit this... I have a leo, but after i got him i learned that they don't belong in captivity, so I want people to know that they should be left in the wild. And we souldn't be breeding them in captivity, for our sole pleaseure... I will leave this post open for discussion. I will be here again to check at about 12 PM western time.

.

firstly, Im glad you have an opinion if there wasn't a devils advocate then there would be no controls in society, also i respect your opinion. I have many close friends who also believe the same reasoning you do, which is totally fine.

You wanted a rebuttle so here's my opinion: I believe keeping animals is a form of higher learning. Many city kids don't have the priviledge of seeing real animals close up. Aquariums and zoos are the only access and educational facilities around them. I for one cannot have a fuzzy pet. Leos are the only convient and healthy choice for me.
Of course no one enjoys seeing an animal mistreated, but when you hear of public outcrys and animal cruelty that means people know, they are educated and want to protect animals.
I think that itself is a step for the "superior" human; to me it shows responsibilty.
The leopard geckos in particular that we see and buy today are NO LONGER imported from the wild, or at least very rarely because itd be a stupid idea - parasites, etc. The geckos that are available have been captive breed (especially the big name breeders) for 10 years now. There is no ecological strain on wild populations. The geckos we have here are pampered to the extreme, they have no predators, nor will they starve. People have been keeping them for so long that all there needs can be met. There is also no evidence that lizards require "freedom" along with "love".
I personally don't agree with mega morph breeding but you've got to admit they're damn cool looking geckos, which shows the amazing genetic variety that these animals possess. When young kids are breeding their own leos that's a whole experience and education that schools could never provide. For some it will teach responsibilty, business skills, and open new doors. I'd rather see a kid interesting in Leos than Oggling over Britney spears.
Anyhue this is far too long, peace

but, even so if they are captivley bred. To me it seems like sticking peopel in jail, then having them mate to have more kids that will be in jail. Any size aquarium is no desert. They is no way we can make a big enough enclosure for them, there will still be walls. I am happy you agree with me, but education should not come with a deprived life of a small animal.

No matter how much you pamper these animals there are still walls...

I just have a few comments to add since you had to know this would start some discussion.

First, I'll openly say that I do collect and breed leopard geckos, but I also have bearded dragons, chameleons, and an iguana, all of which are pets instead of breeding animals.

I do agree with the point that animals should not be kept in a "jail" or "prison", however, when is it a jail and not a mansion? Obviously an adult leo in a 5.5 plastic kritter keeper or whatever they are is not appropriate. But what about the two leos that have a 40 Breeder with all of their demands met, a natural looking habitat and then some? I would say that it's not a jail by any means.

As for Snarks remarks, I agree completely. I think it is great for kids to interact with animals. You would not beleive the number of heads I turn walking down the street with my Iguana, or the remarks I get when talking about my leos. Some people are creeped out by anything small that moves, but the majority of them are extremely interested and want to know more about them. I think just the exposure of reptiles in the US, especially in the city and schools, is a great learning process for everyone involved, and as long as the leos are kept in a humane and healthy living environment, I have no problem with keeping in captivity.

It's no different than the Cat I have.. it is confined to the house, is this a "jail" or inhumane? No, because it is loved and has every need it could want. Occassionally he goes outside, as do a few of my other lizards and some just get to roam around the room.

I think as long as it's done properly and the animals are well cared for, captivity is not an issue. It can only educate people who may one day get to see the animals in the wild and have an all new respect for them. Lord knows how much I've learned about leos in my few years now. I do think that most pet stores have jails for animals (especially reptiles) and I do beleive that to be wrong.

I think that's all I got for now... I apologize if I repeated myself or anything..I'm no english major. =)
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles
Brian@MilwaukeeReptiles.com

Like I said to someone else in this post. No matter how big the "jail" is, there are still walls. What dont you understand about the word "cage".

SAFE HAVEN from predators?

have you ever caught a WILD animal, let's say a reptile>?
they have what is known as a PARASITE LOAD.
captives are safe from parasites to a great extent.

wild animals can suffer from malnourishment, a malady not common in caged animals which are typically cared for quite well.

wild gecko eggs have a slim chance at survival and the babies have an even greater mortality rate such that only a very tiny number of wild-born geckos will survive the first few months of life.

by contrast, captive hatched animals have nearly 100% survival rate, supplying the needs of the hobby without diminishing wild stocks.

face it, captives aren't suffering even slightly.

When I read this thread I couldn't help but agree with both sides. This may sound hipicritical but it makes sense to me. I have always felt that it was wrong to take animals out of their origional habitat and stick them in captivity and that belief will never change. I do feel that wc sales should stop and if I could stop it I would. But, what has happened in the past, we can do nothing about. They whole idea about pets started by taking animals out of the wild forever ago. these animals (reptiles included) have been so domesticated that they could never survive in the wild. Think about it. Our animals are healthy and have had no reason to build up immunities to diseases and stuff in their native lands. Also, there is no way you could take a super hypo tangerine leo or an albino ball python and put them in their native habitat and have them survive. Unfortunately these guys are pets, and doomed to stay pets. In an ideal world this wouldn't be a problem because they would have never been taken out of the wild so many years ago. So the best we can do for them is to stop harvestin them now, and provide the ones in captivity with the best care we can. Our captive born pets don't know any different anyway. I'm not trying to be an expert or anything, this is just what came to my mind when really thought about it.
Emily
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2.4.2 leopard geckos
1.1 ferrets (Oliver and Delilah)
1. budgie (Max)
0.0.1 Ring neck Parakeet (Kiwi)
1.1 German Shepards (Jake and Abigail)

www.freewebs.com/thespottedgecko

In my opinion any animal that needs to be housed in a cage is not a suitable pet. Imagine being in a room that lets you move around, but after a few weeks it get a little "old". Day in and day out you are dependand on some other animal to give you all the nessesities, what if they forget you for a few days every once in a while. What if you had to eat food with this crappy white powder on it, when you could be eating a wide variety of "natural" foor in the WILD. Wouldn't you be happier. Not to be blunt but, they dont love you. LOVE is a human emotion, not a lizards.

I am straight out going to admit this... I have a leo, but after i got him i learned that they don't belong in captivity, so I want people to know that they should be left in the wild. And we souldn't be breeding them in captivity, for our sole pleaseure... I will leave this post open for discussion. I will be here again to check at about 12 PM western time.

Let me see if I can address this in a rational manner to make everyone understand the point of view I have. Its our pleasure and honor to be allowed to share our lives with these wonderful animals. To be able to observe and interact with them on a daily basis without the interference of bars or glass when we wish to touch. And its rather obvious that some of them can become very accustomed to being touched and handled.. and indeed even seek out that contact. What we forget to think about is many smaller lizards travel less than 100 ft in their search for food or mates...and that includes leopard geckos. Even large snakes don't travel that far... we cannot compare reptiles to mammals. Mammals have enormous home ranges... Reptiles in comparison have relatively small ranges due to less intense food needs. I believe Monitors have the biggest home range of any reptile...The Komodo Dragon travels the most of any monitor and its still usually under 7 square miles. Crocodiles and Alligators....once they find a territory tend to stay there unless that area dries up. And those territories are usually no more than a square mile. And the only reason these guys move even that much is to be able to find food and mates.. and proper conditions. If proper conditions are provided and their basic needs met..then captivity is rarely a big deal to reptiles. Again, let me stress, these are NOT mammals. They may attempt to escape their enclosure.. but where do we usually find them again? Wedged into some tight crevice that they'll stay in for days at a time. Why? Because they can afford to. They don't need to travel to find food since its brought to them.....Unlike their wild cousins who, day after day, struggle to survive.. fight over every morsel of food they find and are forced to cover vast distances sometimes just for water or food... In exchange for their freedom... we give them a life of easy living... for those of us who truly care and give them the things they need. For all those who deny these living creatures a proper living..I can only say its people like them who make the rest of us in this hobby look bad.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 2 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice and Mystique))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

its nice to have a rational but controversial topic every once and a while, maybe the others will come back ....

"What we forget to think about is many smaller lizards travel less than 100 ft in their search for food or mates...and that includes leopard geckos" --- first how do you kow that for SURE. Second, if this is the case, Than build a cage that is 100 ft. If you cant handle that dont get the animal.

Let me see if I can address this in a rational manner to make everyone understand the point of view I have. Its our pleasure and honor to be allowed to share our lives with these wonderful animals. To be able to observe and interact with them on a daily basis without the interference of bars or glass when we wish to touch. And its rather obvious that some of them can become very accustomed to being touched and handled.. and indeed even seek out that contact. What we forget to think about is many smaller lizards travel less than 100 ft in their search for food or mates...and that includes leopard geckos. Even large snakes don't travel that far... we cannot compare reptiles to mammals. Mammals have enormous home ranges... Reptiles in comparison have relatively small ranges due to less intense food needs. I believe Monitors have the biggest home range of any reptile...The Komodo Dragon travels the most of any monitor and its still usually under 7 square miles. Crocodiles and Alligators....once they find a territory tend to stay there unless that area dries up. And those territories are usually no more than a square mile. And the only reason these guys move even that much is to be able to find food and mates.. and proper conditions. If proper conditions are provided and their basic needs met..then captivity is rarely a big deal to reptiles. Again, let me stress, these are NOT mammals. They may attempt to escape their enclosure.. but where do we usually find them again? Wedged into some tight crevice that they'll stay in for days at a time. Why? Because they can afford to. They don't need to travel to find food since its brought to them.....Unlike their wild cousins who, day after day, struggle to survive.. fight over every morsel of food they find and are forced to cover vast distances sometimes just for water or food... In exchange for their freedom... we give them a life of easy living... for those of us who truly care and give them the things they need. For all those who deny these living creatures a proper living..I can only say its people like them who make the rest of us in this hobby look bad.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.1.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short) and 2 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice and Mystique))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

In my opinion any animal that needs to be housed in a cage is not a suitable pet. Imagine being in a room that lets you move around, but after a few weeks it get a little "old". Day in and day out you are dependand on some other animal to give you all the nessesities, what if they forget you for a few days every once in a while. What if you had to eat food with this crappy white powder on it, when you could be eating a wide variety of "natural" foor in the WILD. Wouldn't you be happier. Not to be blunt but, they dont love you. LOVE is a human emotion, not a lizards.

I am straight out going to admit this... I have a leo, but after i got him i learned that they don't belong in captivity, so I want people to know that they should be left in the wild. And we souldn't be breeding them in captivity, for our sole pleaseure... I will leave this post open for discussion. I will be here again to check at about 12 PM western time.

In my opinion any animal that needs to be housed in a cage is not a suitable pet. Imagine being in a room that lets you move around, but after a few weeks it get a little "old". Day in and day out you are dependand on some other animal to give you all the nessesities, what if they forget you for a few days every once in a while. What if you had to eat food with this crappy white powder on it, when you could be eating a wide variety of "natural" foor in the WILD. Wouldn't you be happier. Not to be blunt but, they dont love you. LOVE is a human emotion, not a lizards.

I am straight out going to admit this... I have a leo, but after i got him i learned that they don't belong in captivity, so I want people to know that they should be left in the wild. And we souldn't be breeding them in captivity, for our sole pleaseure... I will leave this post open for discussion. I will be here again to check at about 12 PM western time.

While I can appreciate the "knowledgable opinions" people who post here have, I really must say this is not one of them. Why is this posted 4 times? Please, I really can't when stand 14 year old, PETA fans who watch too much TV come up on this forum to post stupid comments. If that hurts your feelings, its probably because it hits pretty close to home. Leoopard geckos do not have the ability to discern "jail" & "freedom" as you so inaccurately described it. Take a look around sparky...you aren't exactly "free" either! Here's another question...Are YOU ready to condemn (by the way that is how it is correctly spelled) people who breed & care for animals for a living?

The reason it is posted 4 times is my fault, my comp was slow i got impatient, well soooorry. But you can't just go around calling anyone who does't agree with you stupid, thats immature, my Lord (as you seem to think you are). Second, i am not a member of PETA, I volunteer at a refuge for Reptiles where people like yourself dump animals when they realize they can't handle them anymore... I see what happens with these animals are in captivity, I want to let people know about it. And I don't spend too much time watching TV, but you seem to like to spellcheck people when English is there second language.

Where did I call anyone stupid? You didn't give much thought to your argument. Every point you made is nonsense (seemingly right from the great almighty PETA)! How much do you know about these animals? Don't lump animals together in one nice, tidy husbandry "package". I would suggest the same advice when addressing members of this forum. I have NEVER dumped any animal, on the contrary, I have taken in HUNDREDS of animals that others couldn't or wouldn't take care of. I doubt you have anywhere near the same experience I have had in dealing with some of the crap that people have put their animals through! By the way, I have dealt with ESOL students for the better part of my teaching career & I'll tell you the same thing I tell them..."look it up before you put it down!" If you don't want to keep leos (or any other animal) as a pet, then don't.

You know what, I am going to drop it with you. You are a hypocrite, when you began replying to my posts you started off by insulting me and questioning my knowledge and experience with working with these animals. Before you make generalizations you should get know know someone, I in fact probebly have more experience than you. I regularly work with over 500 reptiles (all of which have been someones pet before) including a 20 foot reticulated python, 21 caiman (two of them 8 feet) savannah and nile monitors just to mention a few! Now im not quetioning your experience, some people (like yourself) know their animals and what they are talking about BUT what i am saying is true. Most people when buying leo's (or any reptiles for that matter) dont know what they are getting themselves into, they dont know anythng about these animals!!! These people are the people who are fueling the breeding and capture of leo's (or any other reptiles) and for what? so some snot nose kid and improperly take care of his pet that he knows nothing about? This is why i am saying it is best for these animal to be left alone...in the wild...where they come from so they dont have to face a confined life where they are incorrectly tended for (and thats if they arent already neglected)

Well, I appreciate that you have decided to "drop it". I would drop it too if I got called out for making a nonsense statement & then trying to back it up with BS. As far as me being a hypocrite...show me where! Yeah, "get to know someone before" making a statement about them. How much do you know about me? Nothing! You think you actually have more experience than me, well great, your statements seem to prove otherwise. But since you asked: I have been collecting herps for most of my 35 years, I currently OWN (not just clean up their pooh at a shelter & go home) over 200 herps, I also have 2 degrees in biology. As to your experience, you made the statement that you owned a leopard gecko, I hardly find that to be enough "experience" to come on this forum and insult everyone here by stating that we are condemning our pets to a life of jail.

Other fallacies in your statements: 20' foot retic...right! (I have 2 "small" boas, they are only 7' & 9' respectively). 8' caimem...seriously! Few caimen get over 6', maybe 7' max & you have 2 over 8'...wow! I have also included a pic below of my Nile monitor...enjoy!

Some of your previously posted gems:
"Most people when buying leo's (or any reptiles for that matter) dont know what they are getting themselves into, they dont know anythng about these animals!!! "

Boy, talk about making generalizations!

"What if you had to eat food with this crappy white powder on it, when you could be eating a wide variety of "natural" foor in the WILD. Wouldn't you be happier. Not to be blunt but, they dont love you. LOVE is a human emotion, not a lizards."

I love this one....love IS a human emotion, as is "happiness". I can't believe anyone would actually try to use this. As far as the crappy white powder, it can't be all that bad, they eat that crappy white powder right out of a dish in their cage.
And if you actually knew anything about animals, you would know they SEEK physical boundaries in the wild for security. So keeping them in a cage (and believe me I know what the word cage means as does Brian of Milwaukee Reptiles, who also is more experienced than you) is not as stressful or confining as you might think.
I have disagreed with many people (& many have disagreed with me) on this forum. I don't have a problem with opposing views, but be prepared to back up what you say with some FACTS, not some half formed argument based on very limited knowledge!

Its really not worth it to fight with they guy.

I've seen you around on this forum quite a bit, you give sound, respectable advice. Neo's post started off as an invitation to discuss but right from the beginning i knew that this was going to end up as a conflict cuz of his righteous attitude.

For all we know he may be 14, and for all i know you also might be 14 and you posted a pic of your bro or something, you catch what i'm saying?

Its just not worth wasting brain cells on

Neo, you are one of them

Wild reptilian species such as leopard geckoes rarely move from spot to spot, if they find a nice humid crevice they're going to stay there, they catch their food in the wild by going out on the rocks they live in and feed on spiders,scorpions and various other insects. i have researched the bioligy on leos and MANY other herps. Hill..I..any many other people on this forum are very knowledgable, for you to come here and say you are more intellegent then us is completely childish, your posts sound like what the PETA nazis would say. people who mistreat herps, or come in with sick or injured herps may be people who do not know how to care for them properly, in my 15 years of herpkeeping i've have 2 of my animals die and that was from kidney faliure, i have had over 400 herps in my lifetime inculing MANY monitor species and Boidae species
as well as gekkonidae, you should really think about you posts the next time, what i really dont get is how you see somthing that is so beneficial to a geckos health..to be bad for them..do me a favor and please do more research befor your next post ok?

Dan
Tokay_dude

Dan, where did you see me say I am smarter or more knowledgable than everyone here? I made that remark about experience directly at Neo. As a matter of fact I commented that most people here are knowledgable, Please read posts carefully before making a comment on this. I am also not sure who who were aiming your last comments about doing what is best for the geckos, so I will address it. I have no problem with keeping leopard geckos (and many other species) in captivity, I think that is obvious. Anyone who has read my previous posts know that I am a STRONG ADVOCATE of researching an animal before making a purchase, look it up. I also think calling someone an "idiot" shows your lack of respect for others. If you read my posts I don't call people names to make a point, I comment about the stupidity of a comment or lack of thought given in a post, no name calling...if you disagree, make your point.

Hill none of what was said in that post was directed to you, what i meant by " hill..i any many other..etc" what that meant was "me you and others" i was saying that YOU AND I and many others where knowledgable sorry for that misunderstanding, i called him an idiot only because im sick of PETA people and what they stand for

I was wondering what was up, I know no one that really knows what I am about would ever mistake me for a PETA person! (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals???, sorry had to do it!) I know you couldn't agree that "we condemn our lizards to a life of jail" by keeping them because you have a whole room full of them! So glad we got that cleared up! By the way, if you are looking to send any of those females you bought from Alberto out for "permanent breeding loan" , I have some space for them & a male I bought from Aberto to go with them.

lolyeah im glad we got this cleared up also, wouldnt want any bad blood between us PETA...people for the ethical treatment of animals..yeah..th put over a thousand dogs and cats into a small freezer untill their dead because they dont want the worry anymore...yeah real ethical

anyways, im gonna be keepin the females LOL your welcome to inquire when i have babys avalable from them ;0)

Dan

lol yeah im glad we got this cleared up also, wouldnt want any bad blood between us...... PETA "people for the ethical treatment of animals"..yeah..th put over a thousand dogs and cats into a small freezer untill their dead because they dont want the worry anymore...yeah real ethical

anyways, im gonna be keepin the females LOL your welcome to inquire when i have babys avalable from them ;0)

Dan