Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently began producing a very few sulcatas for the trade. Shortly thereafter I was obliquely chastised by a tt club member, who said sulcatas are being overproduced, are often leading miserable lives, and unwanted monsters are turning up everywhere. I've tried to locate some of these monsters locally (so Cal), but none seem to be available whenever I check. I'd be interested in opinions regarding this situation--is the market saturated, is it ethical to produce more, is there a backlog of sulcatas. Tnx.

you have to wonder about a market that is saturated and individuals still go for $300 to $500 for adults.
We are talking pets and I can place ANY unwanted sulcata in a heartbeat.
There's a reason most of the 'normal' tortoise keeps will have nothing to do with the TT and some of its members which I affectionately refer to as the lunitic fringe of tortoise keeping.
If you do what you think is right... it most likely is.
-----
Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

From a lot of descriptions I have read here in the last 4 years
many of them are leading miserable lives right from the start,
as small torts, so those owners would make any tortoise miserable
reagardless of type right from the get-go. Then there are plenty
that are/get sick and die off within a short time. As far as I
can remember there was only one instance (Terry) of someone having
to place larger sulcatas (one was 50 pounds). Usually if people
can care for them at 10 pounds (a real turning point, when they
are no longer "tank" animals) and up they should be fine. If
anybody has a large (4 inches isn't large) sulcata they need to
re-home I'm sure there'd be plenty of takers. Next summer I will
likely begin looking for something else and I'm sure it won't be
"plentiful". I guess it's like iguanas, how many people do you
know that actually have a 5 ft. one (my vet does) , compared to
the number that have been sold and die off. I think that's the
frustration TT feels, that they (hatchlings )are throw-away pets, not that they
can't find enough homes for 125 pound tortoises (I'd drive anywhere
to get it myself if available). niki

>I'd drive anywhere
to get it myself if available). niki

Niki -that's good to know. Where do you live? Would drive to New York? Just something to keep in mind.

Overproduction does not lead to a miserable life. Ignorance and neglect do. AND I say this as someone who does turtle rescue and get in MANY abused, neglected or just too big to handle anymore but otherwise healthy sulcata each year.

I don't think anyone is morally obliged to destroy any animal's eggs. I think the obligation is to be sure (to the degree possible) that the people who end up adopting or buying these animals have knowledge of what they are getting into and how to properly care for them. Also -- If you have a bad feeling --trust your gut and NOT sell or adopt the animal to that particular person.

Things happen in people's live as well. Sometimes there are good care takers who (due to circumstances beyond their control) no longer can provide the necessary care for their torts.

More times than the above scenerio, unfortunately, I have seen folks who made an impulse buy and have an animal they cannot or do not want to care for. They come in crappy shape (last one had the appearance of pyramided pancake tortoise and shell so rubbery you could probably fold him in half). I never lecture them or anything (it would be pointless). I just take them in and find them a good home. (I love sulcata and wish it could be MY home but, unfortunately, with all the aquatics I have and my 2 redfoots and 1 yellowfoot tort I don't want to be someone who cannot invest the time space necessary to keep a sulcata properly for the rest of my or its life).

Anyway point is it is only wrong to tell a potential customer mis or half truths about caring for them and take the money and run-- not wrong to bring them into the world.

IMHO

THE END AND OFF THE SOAP BOX I GO!!