Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just have to vent for few, esp. after the posts to/from rayvendawn. I have been painstakingly caring for a sick juvie for over a month now. She has been to the vet, I have given and finished her 3 medications, and have been syringe feeding her for close to six weeks. I was so excited a few days ago, b/c she was eating more, and even shed! Then last night I went to feed her again and didn't look very good. She didn't eat her skin, so I know she lost weight b/c of that, but she wasn't as interested in the food as I wanted her to be. Awhile back I was given a baby blizzard in absolutely atrocious condition, and after about a dozen trips to the vet and a few hundred dollars, eventually lost him while he was in their care. I'm not looking forward to that experience again. The vet has done everything she can already, and can't do any blood tests (for her kidneys) until she like doubles in weight. I'm at the end of my rope. Sorry so long, I'm just very frustrated.
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1.0 Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 Nearly Paternless Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.1 Tang Nearly Paternless (Peaches)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

You should be proud that you have done absolutely everything you can. That's a lot more than certain people can say. I hope the little girl comes around for you... you certaintly sound like a very loving parent =). Hope everything turns out for you, otherwise take satisfaction in knowing you did every possible thing to help. We just can't save them all.
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles
Brian@MilwaukeeReptiles.com

How did the condition come about, sometimes when you find out the source you can often solve the problem easier.

And if i recieved a sickly gecko and was honestly not prepared to take it on, i would of returned it. Judge all you want, but it should be breeders responsiblity to maintain healthy animals before they're sold.

And if i recieved a sickly gecko and was honestly not prepared to take it on, i would of returned it. Judge all you want, but it should be breeders responsiblity to maintain healthy animals before they're sold.

AMEN!
FINALLY

I was looking around and decided to go ahead and post this... Proabably shouldn't but it makes a good example of what 20 minutes can do.

rayvendawn's posts have been coming from here:
" Entered from 66.169.170.149.ts46v-13.otng1.ftwrth.tx.charter.com at 66.169.170.149"

Thus putting him in the fort worth area of TX (confirmed with an IP Locator service - free). Where local law states:§ 42.09. Cruelty to Animals
(a) A person commits ann offense if the person intentionally or knowingly:
(2) fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, care, or shelter for an animal in the person's custody;

DEFINITIONS listed:
(4) "Custody" includes responsibility for the health, safety, and welfare of an animal subject to the person's care and control, regardless of ownership of the animal.
AND
(5) "Necessary food, care, or shelter" includes food, care, or shelter provided to the extent required to maintain the animal in a state of good health.

It would appear that he knowingly did not provide necessary care while under his responsiblity for the health and welfare of the animal (regardless of ownership...), and OBVIOUSLY did not maintain the animal in a state of good health:
(d) An offense under Subsection (a)(2), (3), (4), (9), or (10) is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is a state jail felony if the person has previously been convicted two times under this section

I'm not saying that anyone is criminally responsible at the moment for this and relating threads... however the basic strategy can be used to get an investigation going in a larger case with more animals, crueler behavior, ect. Also some state are extrememly broad, and that usually means it's gotta be a clear cut case before they go after someone. I'm no lawyer but sometimes I kinda wish I woulda became one.. oh well. I don't want this to be taken as a personal attack... well maybe a little to get all of our points across... but I mean it in much more of an example kind of way. I thought it an important enough finding to be posted.

Info From:
Source code of recent posts
http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm
http://www.animal-law.org/statutes/texas.htm
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles
Brian@MilwaukeeReptiles.com

I wish these laws were actually reinforced. It's really sad that they arn't. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone would turn a kid (assuming Ravendawn is) in for not talking a reptile to the vet. It's sad, but when I took my leo to the vet, everyone including the vet looked at me like I was crazy. I should have knocked that vet out, he did way more harm than good. I am in a small city with only the one "so called" herp vet. If any of my reptiles get sick again, I'll be driving 2 hours to the next big city. I'd rather have to put a reptile down myself then take it to that vet again. He was discustingly bad now that I think of it. Can you find any laws regarding bad vets.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

Actually it turns out that most vets are immune from any civil or criminal action for animal cuelty. And I'm not really sure if they have to do anything to keep a licencse to practice or anything. It us unfourtunate that these laws aren't enforced. My point was to try and make him understand the seriousness, as well as anyone else on the forum that hasn;t actually said anything. It's porbably not the way it came off, but I really just want to see the animals in good homes.
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles
Brian@MilwaukeeReptiles.com

It definately came off that way to me. Animal cruelty in any form is serious, unfortunately most people don't see it that way. Hopefully that's why Ravendawn hasn't wrote back, hopefully he/she has realized how serious doing nothing for a sick animal is.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

ABSOLUTELY!! I've been on the receiving end and it bites.

She came from Petco, and was in good/fair condition when I bought her. She was eating, and doing well for the first 2 weeks. (Their return policy on reptiles is nonexistent). Even at 10 days, that is often not enough to tell with reptiles, esp. if they are eating.
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1.0 Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 Nearly Paternless Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.1 Tang Nearly Paternless (Peaches)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

Yup, sometimes it takes months for some diseases to manifest, hence the recommended 90 day quarantine.

I really hope your baby pulls through. Good luck.
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5.8 leopard geckos

chickabowwow

I'm dam glad I quarantined her!!!! to think I almost didn't! yikes! I'm still watching the other one I got at the same time/place. She's an adult, and is eating, though I'm nervous every time I feed her to make she's eating enough. She came to me missing almost all her claws! you believe that? never seen it before, but she walks/climbs kinda weird b/c of it, and she's not the best hunter, but I think she's going to do OK. Another 30 days of Quarantine for her (Rainbow)
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1.0 Pastel/Jungle Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.1 Tang Nearly Paternless (Peaches)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

sometimes I feel like the more I do, the harder it is if and when....
but thanks again for your support. I'm hoping she's just tired from the shed, but at least w/ the shed, I know she's growing?
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1.0 Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 Nearly Paternless Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.1 Tang Nearly Paternless (Peaches)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

Sorry i didn't mention this early i'd like to mirror milawaki's(sp sorry) concern for your gecko and hope it gets better. Its not fair to you that you expected a nice healthy pet and then this happened to you.

And good on you for taking it in anyways and giving it great care. Don't get to hard on yourself, from the sounds of it you're doing all that you can.

Damn... one of the top 20 largest cities in the US and you butchered it completely... lol. it's "MILWAUKEE" If for no other reason you can remember that this is where all of your beer comes from! lol
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Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles
Brian@MilwaukeeReptiles.com

SOOO SORRY! ahahah i knew it right after i posted i was like damn.

Sorry my beer doesn't come from there. I AM CANADIAN

I'm very sorry that you are in this situation. I myself know how difficult it can be when you end up spending five times what you paid for your leo on vet bills, in the end having the leo pass on anyways. It's heartbreaking watching an animal suffer knowing there is nothing more you can do for it. I wish you and your leo a whole lot of good luck.

Ravendawn, you mentioned in another post that you can't pull money out of the air. Why not? I sure as hell do for my animals. I spend 4 times as much on them as I do on myself. Not to mention that I am only full time student living on student loans. To get a small loan from someone is not that difficult. In all honestly if you were really that hard up for cash (and not just being lazy and/or cheap) I would have sent you a few bucks to take your leo to the vet, I bet there are others who would have done the same.

You also might want to watch who you’re calling an idiot. I'm not talking about myself (call me an idiot all you want), I'm just an avid animal lover that gets furious with rage when reading your ignorant posts. Some of those other people have years and years of experience with breeding leos. None of them were being irrational AT ALL. I agree with Lucien, you should be ashamed of yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself for doing nothing but watch a sick animal die, but also for getting angry at people who just wanted to help your gecko.

You said amen to Snarks when she said she would return a sick gecko. Just from talking with Snarks, I bet if she had been in your situation where she couldn't return the gecko, she would do a whole lot more than nothing. I think everyone on this forum would do more.

I could go on, and on, and on, and on, but I’m going to go take my mutts for a walk. Have a good day everyone. Once again Geckogrl, good luck, my heart goes out to you.

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

thanks to all of you for your support in this difficult time. After checking on Peaches between jobs, I noticed something different. This might not make sense, but I'm going to try to describe it. When looking under a gecko, there is a large dark part between the ribs (stomach, I assume), and then often the back half, which in my experience, unless there are eggs there, looks empty and translucent. I can see a white line running down to the butt (the real name escapes me @ the moment), where it goes between two whitish lumps, one on either side, right in front of the pelvis. well, today there were two beige, cloudy looking spots, one on the line (about 3/8 inch diameter) between the other two whitish lumps (ova, maybe?) and one a little smaller right after the stomach. I'm hoping that this is just waste about to be expelled, and last night she was licking her "area". Called and my vet is out today (it's her b-day), so we're going in tomm. I'm starting to think the humane thing may be just to put her down. We'll see how much she eats tonight. Thanks again for all your support guys (and girls). I joined this forum after I lost the first one, and I'm so glad. Perhaps baby blizzard died for a cause after all. (sigh)
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1.0 Pastel/Jungle Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.1 Tang Nearly Paternless (Peaches)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

Hey you live and you learn

only the vet can give you a sure answer, good luck tomorrow

Good luck tommorow. I know nothing about breeding, but could she have been eggbound and the eggs are turning grey inside her?

I came here for info when my first leo was sick as well. Ultimately he died from MBD because of my lack of knowledge. However, while he was sick and being treated (I did everything I could after realzing my stupidity) I learned everything I could about MBD. I now know 95% more about leos then I did during the four years I had Rex (R.I.P.). I only wish I knew half of what I do now, back then. I as well feel that perhaps poor Rex died for a reason . If I never came to this forum, I would never have met so many knowledgeable and wonderful people. A year ago the spare time I had was spent getting hammerd or whatching tv. I think I'm a little bit more productive with my time now. I learn new things here almost everyday

Lisa
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas

One more very important thing (you're probably on top of it already)... hydration. I notice my hatchlings, for example before they discover the water lid, will lick tiny water droplets off of their noses. Good luck!

Dan, you're right, I am on top of it. She is on damp paper towels (which she licks) and gets water from a syringe every night when she gets fed. I checked out Dr. Gecko a little last night and I'm now thinking it may be a bacterial problem. I will disinfect the tank again, and I now have some hope that another antibiotic might do the trick if it's not too late already.
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1.0 Pastel/Jungle Leopard gecko from JL (BJ)
0.4 Normal/Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko (Beatrice, Goldie, Freckles, Pepper)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko (Brite)
0.1 TBD Leopard Gecko (Rainbow)
0.0.1 Tang Nearly Paternless (Peaches)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes (One snow, One red albino)

Good luck. Dr. Gecko is a good web site hey, it's helped me out in the past.
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0.1 Hypo Leopard Gecko
0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Blizzard Leopard Gecko
1.0 Albino Pacman Frog
1.0 Lovebird (Tony)
1.0 Elkhound Cross (Otto)
0.1 Malamute Cross (Paris)
6.0 Bettas